Let's talk about brake fluids. Good/Bad/Oh snap! I'm farmin'!

[Erron Spalsbury]

I think most of the racers out there have experienced a "farming session" or two. (Where you go shooting off the end of the track because the brakes just weren't there)

Over the past couple of decades I've tried just about every upper echelon type of fluid. Everything from the Motul to Castrol SRF. Now's there's a new player in the market called Torque RT700. The specs on this stuff is just flat out amazing.
Torque RT700? Racing Brake Fluid Technical Specifications (http://torquebrakefluid.com/rt700-specifications.html)

I went through their website and it's rather informative and boasts some pretty impressive numbers. Good enough that I took advantage of their buy 3 get one free deal.
Torque? Racing Brake Fluid The ONLY racing brake fluid developed and manufactured in the USA! (http://torquebrakefluid.com/buy-now.html)

For additional reference...
Worth it: The ultimate brake fluid comparison chart (http://worth-it.blogspot.com/2006/01/ultimate-brake-fluid-comparison-chart.html)

Has anyone tried it? What do you like and have had good luck with? I'm really looking for track experience and seriously hot braking applications. Chime in!

[R/T93]

If that stuff is legit its a lot higher than anything else on the market but 2.5 times more expensive than my fluid of choice (Motul 600).

I may not have a gajillion HP but I am definitely full weight and havent had fade issues ever on a road course even when on stock brakes with carbotech pads.

That stuff is spendy but I suppose it would last half a season or so, thats not too much for an all out race car.

[anyonebutme]

90% sure it's just rebadged Pro-speed brake fluid. Pegasus was the first to carry it, but not on their site anymore. I had the specs on 3ST somewhere.

[anyonebutme]

it's still in the catalog, didn't see it on the site.

[B-Man]

ATE super blue has yet to fail me :dontknow2:

[Maximal]

ATE super blue has yet to fail me :dontknow2:

This. I've never had any fade related to fluid with the super blue.

[95gto]

If that stuff is legit its a lot higher than anything else on the market but 2.5 times cheaper than my fluid of choice (Motul 600).

I may not have a gajillion HP but I am definitely full weight and havent had fade issues ever on a road course even when on stock brakes with carbotech pads.

That stuff is spendy but I suppose it would last half a season or so, thats not too much for an all out race car.

What are you paying for RBF600? Our local supplier has this new stuff at $40/500ml while Motul RBF600 is just under $20/500ml.

[Erron Spalsbury]

90% sure it's just rebadged Pro-speed brake fluid. Pegasus was the first to carry it, but not on their site anymore. I had the specs on 3ST somewhere.

I agree. It certainly does look like that's what it is. Just through a quick search I found some rather stellar reviews of the Prospeed RS683. I'm pretty excited about this, I've been looking at going back to Castrol SRF but was not excited about a silicone based fluid again and all the downsides that come with it.

[R/T93]

What are you paying for RBF600? Our local supplier has this new stuff at $40/500ml while Motul RBF600 is just under $20/500ml.

Sorty I meant expensive :/

From the phone.

[95gto]

Sorty I meant expensive :/

From the phone.

No problem, I thought you were either overpaying for Motul or had a much better price on the new stuff.

[Steve Lawtey]

I run Gulf Competition RF1000 brake fluid in my car. Not had any fading issues with EBC Orangestuff pads fitted in a 355mm AP Racing kit. We know the discs are lacking cooling as the Racetech thermal paint we put on the discs at the last outing all turned colour within a 16 minute race. Don't know if you guys get Gulf products in the US at sensible money, but over here the Gulf RF1000 is the same price as the Motul RBF600 whilst giving the same performance as the Motul RBF 660 which is double the price.

[Erron Spalsbury]

Thanks, Steve.
I think you are also using the same calipers as I am. AP CP5555. I really appreciate your input. I'm curious as to what temps you are seeing with the thermal paint? What pads are you using?

[Steve Lawtey]

Yeah, CP5555 calipers. Caliper heat stickers are showing negligible temperature rise, but the thermal paint all changed colour throughout the entire disc thickness for all 3 colours. That indicates uniform temperature of >630 degC (1166 degF) throughout the whole disc material. I think a lot of it is down to the new splitter and air dam blocking any cooling flow to the wheel arch. Next modification is to run some ducts along the splitter top from the air dam and add some MR style cooling air divertors to the lower control arms and see what effect that has on temps.

The pads I have in now are EBC Orangestuff DP9005 which I'm really impressed with. They've made up a couple of custom rear sets for the stock rear calipers, so that we can keep the brake friction balance throughout the car. The thing I like best with them is how easy it is to modulate the brakes when letting off, hot or cold - I can now trail the brakes whilst turning in and gradually let off the pressure as I feel the back end trying to break free, which is great for those "last of the late brakers" overtakes up the inside to the apex! The last part of the jigsaw is the bias valve waiting to go on, as then I'll hopefully be able to apply brakes whilst still turning :D

Product Detail (http://www.racetechdesign.com/index_files/Page1115.htm)

[Feffman]

I've used Elf HTX115 and/or Motul 600 for years in all my track cars. Neither has ever boiled on me. Contact Barry at Performance Oil Store (www.performanceoilstore.com) for help.

Feff

[J. Fast]

Thanks Steve. I'm also running AP Racing 5555 calipers. I'm running blues on the daily. I wasn't aware EBC recently received merits for the orange series pads. I just reviewed their engineering report on Orangestuff. Looks to be a great pad for track only if you have the calipers for it. :)

Brakes Selector Chart - EBC Brakes (http://ebcbrakes.com/brakes-selector-chart/)

New 2013 Orangestuff full race pads - EBC Brakes (http://ebcbrakes.com/product/orange-stuff/)

[J. Fast]

Gave ATE a chance this morning at the track... As soon as the rotors hit 800 degrees I lost my brakes like a light switch. It wasn't progressive brake fade or anything just flat out pedal sank to the floor and I blew the cap on the brake fluid reservoir. I actually had to pump out of it to and then slow way down. Had I not been doing a cool down lap I would have been farming for sure! Check out the fluid LOL... http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy163/JFastMotorsports/20130623_111859_zpse77df610.jpg now let's look closer in the sun... http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy163/JFastMotorsports/20130623_111911_zps98621c6a.jpg Anyone else see bubbles? Also, I tried out Hawk DTC-70's this past month and I love em. Best brake pad I've used on AP Racing BBK to date! Summit stocks them for cheap! Downside on the DTC-70's? They produce mounds of brake dust.

[R/T93]

Mine get waaayyy hotter than that and my Motul 600 lasts for several track days...

How are you checking your brake temps? I have an IR gun with adjustable emissivity, if your gun isnt adjustable its not accurate on shiny metal...

I routinely come in to the pits after a 4 minute cool down lap, fronts are 5-600 degrees, rears are 800+ AFTER parking and idling for 30 seconds checking oil pressure and temps. My fronts are 14" 6 piston XYZ, rears are stock 2g with Carbotech AX6 pads. The fronts have MR deflectors, rear has no cooling.

I have cooked the red paint off DBA 4000's (rotor core temp > 1150) and my fluid never once faded, EVER. Wonder what is going on with your setup? Seems irregular to me at least from my experience.

[Maximal]

I see the bubbles but I know I've run mine hotter than that and have never had any issues...I wouldn't be surprised if it's the pads. Try stepping up to one of the Carbotech XP series.

[anyonebutme]

it wasn't pads. dtc-70's are some of the most aggressive race pads i've ever used and he was barely getting them hot enough at 800*. They will start throwing spark show when they get hot. I just think it was entrained air/moisture.

[anyonebutme]

FWIW, i use cheap parts store shit.....vavoline?

[Maximal]

My bad, I just looked through the previous posts and saw he was talking about orange stuff and figured he was running those.

[Erron Spalsbury]

Gave ATE a chance this morning at the track... As soon as the rotors hit 800 degrees I lost my brakes like a light switch. It wasn't progressive brake fade or anything just flat out pedal sank to the floor and I blew the cap on the brake fluid reservoir. I actually had to pump out of it to and then slow way down. Had I not been doing a cool down lap I would have been farming for sure! Check out the fluid LOL... http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy163/JFastMotorsports/20130623_111859_zpse77df610.jpg now let's look closer in the sun... http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy163/JFastMotorsports/20130623_111911_zps98621c6a.jpg Anyone else see bubbles? Also, I tried out Hawk DTC-70's this past month and I love em. Best brake pad I've used on AP Racing BBK to date! Summit stocks them for cheap! Downside on the DTC-70's? They produce mounds of brake dust.


YUP!
Welcome to it. Higher coefficient of friction, higher pad temp, more likely the boil of fluid. Ti backing plates, brake coolers, and higher fluid BP are what's next in your future. :P Or, you'll find out like I did that you may not be boiling it on the track but rather by the rear turbo while sitting still in the pits.
Seriously though, wait till you put slicks on and go way higher in temp due to additional adhesion. That's when it really starts getting fun. Look into the Torque fluid. Best I've used yet and I've used them all. :)

[B-Man]

Gave ATE a chance this morning at the track... As soon as the rotors hit 800 degrees I lost my brakes like a light switch. It wasn't progressive brake fade or anything just flat out pedal sank to the floor and I blew the cap on the brake fluid reservoir. I actually had to pump out of it to and then slow way down. Had I not been doing a cool down lap I would have been farming for sure! Check out the fluid LOL... http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy163/JFastMotorsports/20130623_111859_zpse77df610.jpg now let's look closer in the sun... http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy163/JFastMotorsports/20130623_111911_zps98621c6a.jpg Anyone else see bubbles? Also, I tried out Hawk DTC-70's this past month and I love em. Best brake pad I've used on AP Racing BBK to date! Summit stocks them for cheap! Downside on the DTC-70's? They produce mounds of brake dust.

Type 200?

[lawdogg]

Has anyone tried it? What do you like and have had good luck with? I'm really looking for track experience and seriously hot braking applications. Chime in!

Hey Erron I haven't tried it so I probably shouldn't be replying, but at the little track in upstate NY where I cooked a rotor in half using XP8 pads, RBF600 never failed me.

However I did still go farming (https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-1rkyDCB5WUk/Sqg0mD3MnnI/AAAAAAAABiM/tse204aO61o/w959-h639-no/IMG_6705.JPG). :p

[Erron Spalsbury]

Hey Erron I haven't tried it so I probably shouldn't be replying, but at the little track in upstate NY where I cooked a rotor in half using XP8 pads, RBF600 never failed me.

However I did still go farming (https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-1rkyDCB5WUk/Sqg0mD3MnnI/AAAAAAAABiM/tse204aO61o/w959-h639-no/IMG_6705.JPG). :p

Hahahaha! That's proper farming right there!
Did you grind through the rotor?

[lawdogg]

Hahahaha! That's proper farming right there!
Did you grind through the rotor?

No, it was a combination of heat and braking force (and maybe a manufacturing defect?) that made the hat decide to say F U to the rotor ... centric blank rotor ... but the fluid was fine!

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-NqtjbkEq4mE/SqRB1_xS-dI/AAAAAAAABgM/pLDi5zImxF0/s800/IMG_7841.jpg

[Erron Spalsbury]

Well, that's about the scariest thing ever!

[Maximal]

What track was that Ryan?

[lawdogg]

What track was that Ryan?

It's Saint Lawrence Motorsports Park, up in Morristown, NY ... it looks like its website is down but some info is still up here (http://www.na-motorsports.com/Tracks/NY/StLawrence.html). I think it's used mostly for karting and renting out to car clubs.

http://goo.gl/maps/OZdT9

[Maximal]

Thanks. Looking for cheaper places but that's way upstate.

[lawdogg]

Thanks. Looking for cheaper places but that's way upstate.

Sure ... it's waay out in the middle of nowhere. Plus it's a really small track. And most people usually just pitch tents for the weekend. Fun in a pinch though!

[anyonebutme]

ahhh, the all too common 2 piece rotor conversion.

[J. Fast]

Type 200? ATE super blue... 530 dry boil,;350 wet.

YUP!
Welcome to it. Higher coefficient of friction, higher pad temp, more likely the boil of fluid. Ti backing plates, brake coolers, and higher fluid BP are what's next in your future. :P Or, you'll find out like I did that you may not be boiling it on the track but Torquerather by the rear turbo while sitting still in the pits.
Seriously though, wait till you put slicks on and go way higher in temp due to additional adhesion. That's when it really starts getting fun. Look into the Torque fluid. Best I've used yet and I've used them all. :) it's definitely not from turbos. I am using aluminum backing plates and Naca collectors with brake cooling hoses. As soon as I upgraded the brake fluid the issue went away. Give me some of your Torque fluid, I'd love to try it!


No, it was a combination of heat and braking force (and maybe a manufacturing defect?) that made the hat decide to say F U to the rotor ... centric blank rotor ... but the fluid was fine!

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-NqtjbkEq4mE/SqRB1_xS-dI/AAAAAAAABgM/pLDi5zImxF0/s800/IMG_7841.jpg WOW! That's really scary! Have you since upgraded to a big brake kit with upgraded rotors?

[Erron Spalsbury]

ATE super blue... 530 dry boil,;350 wet.
it's definitely not from turbos. I am using aluminum backing plates and Naca collectors with brake cooling hoses. As soon as I upgraded the brake fluid the issue went away. Give me some of your Torque fluid, I'd love to try it!


Ya, I didn't ever see an issue out on the track, it was more of a holy cow moment really. You've seen the paint discoloration on my firewall, seeing a glowing orange turbo in broad daylight back then (on the 15g's) sitting all of about 4-6 inches from the brake lines made me nervous. I'm sure that's not very good for the fluid no matter what, hehehe. Here's where I got it from...
Torque RT700? Racing Brake Fluid Technical Specifications (http://www.torquebrakefluid.com/rt700-specifications.html)

I'm pretty impressed by the stuff, I'd recommend it to anyone.

[B-Man]

ATE super blue... 530 dry boil,;350 wet.


That's awfully light colored for super blue.

[Erron Spalsbury]

That's awfully light colored for super blue.

I was gonna say... I remembered super blue to actually be blue.5605

[J. Fast]

My mistake. It is infact ATE fluid however it's ATE SL6.

[bridge]

Thank you for the clarification as an ate blue/ typ 200 user myself

[lawdogg]

WOW! That's really scary! Have you since upgraded to a big brake kit with upgraded rotors?

Nope, but I decided to try to track a Miata instead! :Doh: (Sorry for derail ...)

[Oskar]

I'm going to try this fluid as lately I've has some issues with boiling RBF600. I have 355mm Stoptech BBK and Carbotech XP-12 pads up front and freshly rebuilt stock 2G calipers and XP-10s in the rear.

Oskar

[J. Fast]

I'm going to try this fluid as lately I've has some issues with boiling RBF600. I have 355mm Stoptech BBK and Carbotech XP-12 pads up front and freshly rebuilt stock 2G calipers and XP-10s in the rear.

Oskar
Wow! That's pretty serious heat. I'm full pedal from 175mph to about 90mph and on/off around 120 mph on DTC-70 fronts and OEM rears without vents and I haven't boiled Motul 600. I'm up to 40 min sessions now too!! Damn, you must be killin it! What are your brake scrub speeds?

[Oskar]

Wow! That's pretty serious heat. I'm full pedal from 175mph to about 90mph and on/off around 120 mph on DTC-70 fronts and OEM rears without vents and I haven't boiled Motul 600. I'm up to 40 min sessions now too!! Damn, you must be killin it! What are your brake scrub speeds?

PG2013.2 @ BIR, Stealth R/T TT, a lap from session 7 - YouTube (http://youtu.be/6en5mKZcLdY) Car is around 3450lbs with me and a full tank. 290 whp/tq. Nitto NT-01s. I've run at Road America and probably 10 or more track days at BIR with the Stoptech setup and not had any problems. Even with co-drivers where we switch off alternating sessions. This last time I had one moment of weak brake pedal at the track and a couple after coming off the track. Starting the cool down lap earlier helps with the issues when coming off the track. But the weak brake pedal at the track scared me. I've seen cars go farming, and it is not fun. Especially at BIR where there are no gravel pits.

[J. Fast]

PG2013.2 @ BIR, Stealth R/T TT, a lap from session 7 - YouTube (http://youtu.be/6en5mKZcLdY) Car is around 3450lbs with me and a full tank. 290 whp/tq. Nitto NT-01s. I've run at Road America and probably 10 or more track days at BIR with the Stoptech setup and not had any problems. Even with co-drivers where we switch off alternating sessions. This last time I had one moment of weak brake pedal at the track and a couple after coming off the track. Starting the cool down lap earlier helps with the issues when coming off the track. But the weak brake pedal at the track scared me. I've seen cars go farming, and it is not fun. Especially at BIR where there are no gravel pits. Cool vid. I like the telemetry. I'm not familiar with your setup, are you TT or single? Any hood pics? How do you edit your telemetry onto your video? I'd like to learn how to do that.

[Oskar]

Thanks! This was the first time I added telemetry and it came out pretty well. I used RaceRender 2 software to make the movies. I synchronized a GoPro movie with Harry's laptimer data and OpenPort datalogs.

[Oskar]

As for my setup, nothing fancy in the power department. 13G TT on pump gas.

[J. Fast]

I really like the video and data acquisition combined telemetry. It's a huge help with corner entry and exit and braking. I could shave more time off my laps if I combined both instead of running video separate. I think telemetry setup would make for a good thread. OT, what's your total out of pocket for your setup, Oskar?

[fastfalcon94]

I may try the type 200. I don't autocross my vr4 but sometimes at the drag strip my brakes get spongy when trying to slowdown. If you don't turn fast enough you'll run into a corn field. I just bought an Airtekk BBK so I might as well do the upgrade the fluid too. I believe this is the track Lawdogg was talking about. It's called SLNP? or SLMP? and was once a gokart track. A bunch of us camped there for a weekend last year, and raced during the day. Good times.

http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa327/fastfalcon94/subybuild/SLMP_zps23bc876f.jpg

[Oskar]

I really like the video and data acquisition combined telemetry. It's a huge help with corner entry and exit and braking. I could shave more time off my laps if I combined both instead of running video separate. I think telemetry setup would make for a good thread. OT, what's your total out of pocket for your setup, Oskar?

I'll go ahead and write this up later on tonight.

[vroom4]

Have you tried solo storm?

[Oskar]

Robert at MVP gave me a great price on Torque RT700 brake fluid