LtWt Flywheel, Who's Runnin one?

[Nihil]

I wanna know who's runnin a light weight flywheel. Brand, weight, material, miles you've got on it and how it's holdin up. I'm in the market for one but can't decide on what to get.

I don't want to know pros and cons, that's all I can find in regards to them. I'm interested in quality and longevity, issues or problems and what not.

Share your experiences, please!

[kywhitelightning]

I've had an RPS for 7 years now. I just rebuilt it with the replacement pads. ~30k on it so far.

Jeff

[drew0u812]

I have over 200,000 miles on my Fidanza, it has worked great over the years. I would not go back to the heavy stock flywheel.
I don't have a problem launching the car either... Yes, you will need a bit more revs for an aggressive start, but the engine revs up faster and is more responsive to the throttle, I don't have a problem getting the tach to around 5K for a nice hard launch, about 500rpm more than the stock flywheel. I do believe however, that the smaller mass of the flywheel can exasperate the transmission "rattle" noise when idling.

[Nihil]

Thanks guys. I've heard of the Fidanza's warping, I'm wondering if it's from people who can't adjust to the different throttle response and are slipping the clutch more, causing more heat and warping.

I wouldn't think billet aluminum would warp unless under heavy abuse.

[Maximal]

I beat the crap out of my FWD Fidanza for years without any issue...countless drag passes with a 150 shot of nitrous. When I went with my TT swap I threw an AWD one on and haven't had any issues with that.

With that said, if you plan on drag racing or launching for whatever reason I'd stay away from it as it makes the car bog easier. However, if you're doing anything else (street, auto-x, track) I'd definitely recommend one.

If you guys are interested let me know and I can get you some pricing. /shameless plug.

[green-lantern]

I have a Fidanza and it's holding up fine. I bought it used from Chris (IPO) a few years back. Seems like most like a heavy FW for drag racing and a light one for road course.

[SUTHNR]

I've had my Fidanza in my car since about 2000 - same one. Been through probably 4 faceplates. It's a billet CNC backing with a steel faceplate held on with 18-20 bolts. If someone says it's warped, they are either not installing the faceplate correctly or not installing the clutch cover correctly, or not driving correctly. But the surviving the driving has been more than proven by many people here - mine has about 200 drag passes, many hours on the road course, and at least a dozen autocross events...)

We have them in stock for TT and NA: Fidanza Aluminum Flywheels - MIT5 VR4/TT and MIT6 FWD/NA*-*Mitsubishi 3000GT*/*Dodge Stealth Parts (http://www.3sx.com/store/comersus_viewItemBundle.asp?idProduct=24143)

EricB

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

matt at DR sure has a different opinion.

[DuTTch]

I went back to stock flywheel

[CoopKill]

Throwing an IPS lightweight stealy on

[Nihil]

Hmm, yeah, I definitely am going with a light weight, just tryin to figure out which one I want, I was wanting Fidanza until I heard people warping them....which now, seems people have confirmed my assumptions on bad install or bad driving causing the failures.

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

or a lot of power and a heavy AWD car. everyone matt said he removed looked like a pringle when he pulled off the friction surface.

I'm sure matt at dr knows how to install a clutch.

[green-lantern]

everyone matt said he removed looked like a pringle when he pulled off the friction surface.



The friction surface or the FW itself?

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

The friction surface or the FW itself?

the friction surface

[sketch]

I've got a lightweight fidanza that's going to be bolted on shortly - I like the idea of the removable faceplate. $50 shipped on ebay for a replacement, and I've read tons of positive things about them on these forums.

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

positive things like the ring gear falling off or the faceplate warping?

[Nihil]

or a lot of power and a heavy AWD car. everyone matt said he removed looked like a pringle when he pulled off the friction surface.

I'm sure matt at dr knows how to install a clutch.

True, that.

[sketch]

positive things like the ring gear falling off or the faceplate warping?

nope. (http://www.3sgto.org/transmission-suspension-drivetrain/11493-ltwt-flywheel-whos-runnin-one.html#post223491)

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

nope. (http://www.3sgto.org/transmission-suspension-drivetrain/11493-ltwt-flywheel-whos-runnin-one.html#post223491)

uh yeah, its an NA. Here is another NA for you:

Fidanza aluminum flywheel problems - 3000GT/Stealth International Message Center (http://www.3si.org/forum/f117/fidanza-aluminum-flywheel-problems-547771/)

[sketch]

uh yeah, its an NA. Here is another NA for you:

Fidanza aluminum flywheel problems - 3000GT/Stealth International Message Center (http://www.3si.org/forum/f117/fidanza-aluminum-flywheel-problems-547771/)

interesting, first i've heard of that happening. though nowhere in the post does it mention TT or NA.

in general, if the guys at a reputable companies like 3SX or Maximal have had good experience with them (especially over the length of time that Eric and Terry claim to been using them, as noted above), I'd say that they're probably pretty quality products overall.

here's another NA and a TT for you. (http://www.3sgto.org/transmission-suspension-drivetrain/11493-ltwt-flywheel-whos-runnin-one.html#post223420)

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

interesting, first i've heard of that happening. though nowhere in the post does it mention TT or NA.

in general, if the guys at a reputable companies like 3SX or Maximal have had good experience with them (especially over the length of time that Eric and Terry claim to been using them, as noted above), I'd say that they're probably pretty quality products overall.

here's another NA and a TT for you. (http://www.3sgto.org/transmission-suspension-drivetrain/11493-ltwt-flywheel-whos-runnin-one.html#post223420)

so, you are saying that Dynamic Racing is not reputable?

I've seen MANY posts over the years of the ring gears separating on those. Just as many saying the friction disks warped and caused the clutch to drag.

Terry is also running FWD. The load of an AWD car with a ton of traction is many times that of a FWD car.

[sketch]

so, you are saying that Dynamic Racing is not reputable?
I don't think I said or inferred that anywhere in my post. Stating that a positive about one company or product is true does not automatically infer that the inverse is true of another company or product without mentioning it. Though you are free to interpret my post in any manner of your choosing.


I've seen MANY posts over the years of the ring gears separating on those. Just as many saying the friction disks warped and caused the clutch to drag.
If you look around enough, you can probably find posts re: any brand's flywheel having a wide variety of issues.


Terry is also running FWD. The load of an AWD car with a ton of traction is many times that of a FWD car.
If you look at his post above, which I conveniently linked for you, he swapped to TT (and subsequently swapped on the AWD flywheel) and didn't have any issues with that, either.

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

The point is he is not running the car AWD, it is not been AWD converted. An AWD car is much harder to launch.

It is obvious you are going to run this thing no matter what I say, so go for it.

[sketch]

Well, it's a good thing that I'm FWD-TT and don't need to worry about AWD launches then, right?

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

Well, it's a good thing that I'm FWD-TT and don't need to worry about AWD launches then, right?

haha yeah if that is what it is then run whatever you want.

[FeaRpb]

I have light weight billet flywhyeel with my clutchmasters setup. I haven't ran it yet, but I feel that it will do me just fine with no issues.

[green-lantern]

I have a friction plate here that came off mine. It's pretty damn flat but I can tell if I lay it on a flat surface it's not perfect. Honestly I wouldn't expect one to be perfect after so many heat cycles. It's just the surface, not really the back bone. The real test would be to check the plate with the FW. I don't think there would be anyway possible to make a stronger aluminum flywheel than a steel one though. Performance vs reliability

Mine had served me well so far, hopefully it will stay that way. If I have it taken off I'll take it and have it tested.

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o310/hptech4564/IMAG0878_zpsc1f156b9.jpg
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o310/hptech4564/IMAG0879_zps60aea904.jpg

[Nihil]

I have a friction plate here that came off mine. It's pretty damn flat but I can tell if I lay it on a flat surface it's not perfect. Honestly I wouldn't expect one to be perfect after so many heat cycles. It's just the surface, not really the back bone. The real test would be to check the plate with the FW. I don't think there would be anyway possible to make a stronger aluminum flywheel than a steel one though. Performance vs reliability

Mine had served me well so far, hopefully it will stay that way. If I have it taken off I'll take it and have it tested.

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o310/hptech4564/IMAG0878_zpsc1f156b9.jpg
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o310/hptech4564/IMAG0879_zps60aea904.jpg

This is the kind of info I'm lookin for, thanks for the input.

After the bickering in this thread, I'm feelin a little leary of the Fidanza though. That's the most common one it seems though, huh? Wonder if the quality control has gone down and those who've had theirs for a long time, got one in the days of better economy and quality control ha.

What HP numbers are you guys puttin down, guess I shoulda asked that too, as gump had a good point with the HP/weight

[anyonebutme]

I've given my *used* fidanza hell for years. If you are overheating it to the point of warping, you need a more aggressive plate or to change the launch technique.

I don't slip my clutch. probably why it's still good. no heat.

[Nihil]

Do they have different plate options then? I just read this (http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-engine-turbo-drivetrain/472363-fidanza-flywheel-review.html)review on the evo forum. In regards to that, when you guys installed, did you use old bolts, ARP or anything else different? That looks like a bad install to me, that I don't want to happen

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

I'm not making this shit up guys, if you actually drag race the fidanza and use the clutch you are going to have issues:

"
Fidanza FW's are not balanced, the RPS FW is


I used Fidanza's for a few yrs before there was a RPS FW, and if you do allot of drag racing like I do it will warp like a potato chip. At least thy always did on me. Now if you don’t do allot of drag racing were you get it VERY hot thy seem to hold up fine.

"

I'm not sure why you wouldn't get the RPS if you really an lightweight flywheel or even the IPS steel one.

[Nihil]

I'm not sure why you wouldn't get the RPS if you really an lightweight flywheel or even the IPS steel one.

RPS was my second choice, but is making its way towards first, anyone else have info on the RPS?

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

Here is a nice search to browse for a while:

3000GT/Stealth International Message Center - Search Results for fidanza ring gear (http://www.3si.org/forum/gtsearch.php?cx=partner-pub-7865546952023728%3A762432e7lxn&cof=FORID%3A11&ie=UTF-8&q=fidanza+ring+gear&sa=Search&siteurl=www.3si.org%2Fforum%2Fusercp.php&ref=www.3si.org%2Fforum%2Ff35%2Ffidanza-rps-133985%2F&ss=)

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

I really like this thread:

Fidanza flywheel broke in 2 pieces. - 3000GT/Stealth International Message Center (http://www.3si.org/forum/f1/fidanza-flywheel-broke-2-pieces-470844/)

[anyonebutme]

last sentence seems to support my opinion.

As for bolts, I use stock bolts with locktite, impacted on with electric impact, I've never torqued them.

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

last sentence seems to support my opinion.

As for bolts, I use stock bolts with locktite, impacted on with electric impact, I've never torqued them.

sure if you don't launch much run whatever you want. Personally I'd rather not have a part that can't handle as much heat as stock.

[anyonebutme]

sure if you don't launch much run whatever you want. Personally I'd rather not have a part that can't handle as much heat as stock.

get your ass in chatbox

[anyonebutme]

Anyways, back to recommendations, i hear the really lightweight chromoly ones are pretty good. Think a couple vendors now sell them.

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

Anyways, back to recommendations, i hear the really lightweight chromoly ones are pretty good. Think a couple vendors now sell them.

totally agree and you can get them resurfaced a few times.

[Hans@GZP]

Flywheels | Ground Zero Performance (http://www.groundzeroperformance.com/product-category/3000gt-stealth-parts/flywheels)

The chromoly ones are nice since it is all one type of metal. With the different metals of an aluminum/steel flywheel, you have different heating and cooling times. This can lead to the material warping. I personally have not seen a fidanza flywheel friction surface warp, put it could be possible.

[Nihil]

Yeah, searching for RPS and Fidanza failures, they both come up, Fidanza more so, though. Still undecided, it seems there's at least a few failures for each

[Nihil]

My concern with the Comp flywheels are, they seem to run quite a bit lighter than the others, 15-16lbs seems averaage which might be the magic weight? I DO like the idea of a once piece, less chance for failure of parts

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

My concern with the Comp flywheels are, they seem to run quite a bit lighter than the others, 15-16lbs seems averaage which might be the magic weight? I DO like the idea of a once piece, less chance for failure of parts

It is 2 lbs heavier than the fidanza.

[Nihil]

Here's the info I've gathered real quick:
Clutch Masters FW-622-AL 16 lbs aluminum
Clutch Masters FW-622-SF 16lbs steel
Competition 2-622-ST 14 lbs steel
Competition 2-622-STU 11.5 lbs steel
Fidanza 161301 12 lbs billet aluminum
SPEC SD03A aluminum no info
SPEC SM03S steel no info
RPS billet aluminum 12.5 lbs
stock 22lbs

[drew0u812]

Yeah, searching for RPS and Fidanza failures, they both come up, Fidanza more so, though. Still undecided, it seems there's at least a few failures for each

Fidanza has been making these flywheels before RPS, so there might be a lot more Fidanza out there in the wild.

[drew0u812]

The Aluminum flywheels are literally half the mass of the stock flywheel, therefore it would heat up much much quicker than stock, thereby limiting the amount of launches you can do in a given time-frame. One benefit of the aluminum however, is that it cools down faster than steel.

I think it's pretty obvious that if you are making big power and drag racing then a steel flywheel would be a better option. On a BPU car cutting 1.7xx 60", I don't think there should be any problem unless you have a slipping clutch.... at least I never did.

[green-lantern]

What HP numbers are you guys puttin down, guess I shoulda asked that too, as gump had a good point with the HP/weight

This FS came on the FW when I bought it so I don't know the history.



I think it's pretty obvious that if you are making big power and drag racing then a steel flywheel would be a better option.

This

[Maximal]

The point is he is not running the car AWD, it is not been AWD converted. An AWD car is much harder to launch.

It is obvious you are going to run this thing no matter what I say, so go for it.

Just to make it fair I was launching on slicks and prepped tracks which is probably equal to launching an AWD in most cases.

It looks like the issues come from hard launches which if you're doing a bunch of them a lightweight flywheel isn't ideal anyways.

[Nihil]

Those are all good points. Anyone have an opinion on the Comp clutch flywheels? They're one piece steel, I've been doing just a general google search for reviews and the Fidanza definitely has more failures than any other, but like said, they've been around longer too. RPS had minimal search results and all the comp flywheel installs were on small cars with irrelevant information.

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

Just to make it fair I was launching on slicks and prepped tracks which is probably equal to launching an AWD in most cases.

It looks like the issues come from hard launches which if you're doing a bunch of them a lightweight flywheel isn't ideal anyways.

your car doesn't weigh 3800 lbs I hope.

[Broomfield Racing]

Hundreds of passes on my IPS LW flywheel. Hard launches. Many with slicks. Still working great!

[vr4tune]

Hundreds of passes on my IPS LW flywheel. Hard launches. Many with slicks. Still working great!i just removed the Ips flywheel because my new carbon carbon clutch has its own. Otherwise I'd still be running it. It's a GREAT FLYWHEEL! It's also resurface-able like a stock.

[Nihil]

Well, I'm leaning towards the steel, either IPS or the Comp.

How's the IPS since it's so light? I was afraid of goin that light, but if you guys like it, I'll go that route too

*edit*
Looks like those two are the same but the IPS states resurfacable.

[HLxDrummer]

Have you driven a car with a LW FW before? I did once and I doubt I'll ever buy one. Have to shift fast all the time or rev match UPshifts for them to be smooth. Really annoying..

[Nihil]

Have you driven a car with a LW FW before? I did once and I doubt I'll ever buy one. Have to shift fast all the time or rev match UPshifts for them to be smooth. Really annoying..

That's how I drive on a regular basis, "heel toe" shifting is how I drive, this is the reason I want a lighter flywheel, it's like a ten second shift stock (that's exaggerated, of course), you have to walk it into each gear, my theory is, lighter FW will enable quicker upshifting and more precise heel toe down shifting which will suit my needs nicely.

My biggest problem is putting something in that's just going to grenade or not last.

[sketch]

if your shift is over 1/4-1/2 second, you're doing it wrong.

[Nihil]

if your shift is over 1/4-1/2 second, you're doing it wrong.

I see you're FWD, the FWD trans is A LOT quicker with shorter gearing, along with a lot less temperamental, I could shift my base model like a raped ape, but the turbo 3/S and DSM's are twice as long to shift, unless you don't care about synchros...lighter flywheel, IMO should help with this, letting the RPMs fall quicker so it'll want to go into gear, rather than forcing it...it's all about finesse, just tryin to make things a little easier

[anyonebutme]

Driving with a light flywheel is a learned skill. Just the same as launching with a light flywheel. You don't have to hammer the gears to be smooth.

That being said, a light flywheel will not change your synchro engagement, because it's not connected to the transmission during the shift. Get a lighter clutch for that.

[Nihil]

Driving with a light flywheel is a learned skill. Just the same as launching with a light flywheel. You don't have to hammer the gears to be smooth.

That being said, a light flywheel will not change your synchro engagement, because it's not connected to the transmission during the shift. Get a lighter clutch for that.

Agreed, you read too into that, lighter flywheel will be quicker to match RPMs, both up shifting and down shifting.

[fullracegt]

iv been running an IPS lw flywheel since 09,launched it hard too many times to count also my cars pretty much stock but 3200lbs and on 225/45's so idk how it would fair in a high hp full weight car i would think it would do better than an aluminum flywheel tho

[HLxDrummer]

So you heel-toe UPshift? When I'm driving on the street I like to upshift casually and I take just the same amount of time to shift as it does for the engine revs to fall and the synchros to match up.

I can see if you want to shift fast all the time but then you wouldn't need to heel-toe upshift (would kind of defeat the purpose). You wouldn't need to if you shift fast with a stock FW either, so I don't really understand the need for a heel-toe rev match upshift I guess.

As far as synchro wear, I would think the faster upshifts required by the LW FW would put more wear on the synchros unless you wait for the synchros to match up then rev match the FW speed to the clutch speed (which obviously reduces the speed of your shift). The synchros take longer to match up on their own than it takes for the engine revs to drop to wear they need to be in the next gear when you have a LW FW.

Just my personal opinion.. I like to drive easy on the street (this car is my DD) and take it easy on the synchros. Relatively slow upshift to allow the synchros to match up, heel-toe double clutch downs to match the synchros as well. If I am having fun then I'll obviously do faster shifts but I still double clutch the downshifts.

[Nihil]

So you heel-toe UPshift?

No, not upshifts


When I'm driving on the street I like to upshift casually and I take just the same amount of time to shift as it does for the engine revs to fall and the synchros to match up.

You're on the same page with me here, while upshifting, you have to wait for everything to sync up, which, with the heavier flywheel, takes more time than it will take with a lighter one.


As far as synchro wear, I would think the faster upshifts required by the LW FW would put more wear on the synchros unless you wait for the synchros to match up then rev match the FW speed to the clutch speed (which obviously reduces the speed of your shift). The synchros take longer to match up on their own than it takes for the engine revs to drop to wear they need to be in the next gear when you have a LW FW.

Just my personal opinion.. I like to drive easy on the street (this car is my DD) and take it easy on the synchros. Relatively slow upshift to allow the synchros to match up, heel-toe double clutch downs to match the synchros as well. If I am having fun then I'll obviously do faster shifts but I still double clutch the downshifts.

The faster upshifts, as long as smooth and synced up properly (revs matching evenly) both up and down, will be a lot nicer on syncros.

Just as an example, say you rev to redline, then shift to the next gear, you can cram it into the next gear, but your trans isn't going to last long in doing so, but if you "walk it in" letting everything sort of fall into place as the RPMs decelerate, it shifts fine, but that takes time, and will take less time with a lighter flywheel, since the RPMs drop a lot quicker.

this is all off topic though...I just wanted to know what the best was to put in my car as I don't want to put something in that's going to grenade my trans.

The IPS sounds like the winner here, the Competition Ultra light is spec'ed the same, so I went with that because of price and quickness of shipping, so I guess when it gets here and I get it all installed, we'll see how I like it. But from the reviews on the IPS one, I should be just as happy

[HLxDrummer]

I'm pretty sure the FW doesn't affect how fast the synchros (input side and output side of the trans) will match. Just the FW and clutch.

So when you shift at redline, the engine revs will fall faster so you can drop the clutch faster without having it lurch forward, but the input shaft of the trans still has the same speed/momentum as it did with the stock FW and therefore will still take the same amount of time for the synchros to mesh on their own.

Either way, the trans will be fine I am just OCD! As long as you like the driveability of the LWFW then it's all good :)

[Nihil]

I guess you're right, ha I never really thought it all the way through, just knew the heel toe downshifts would be quicker and kinda applied the same logic to the upshift and assumed they'd be quicker too...Oh well, main reason for goin with a light weight is for over all performance anyway and I need a new flywheel, waitin for all the parts and the car will soon be gettin a decent sized overhaul in the next couple weeks.

[Ninja Performance]

I sell them, many brands, and if you want one I will sell you one. Personally, I use the OEM Flywheel.

-Chris

[TurboSinceBirth]

It doesn't slow your shifts running OEM vs a lightweight flywheel. The difference is negligible because it's not a computer controlling the shifts but there's human error instead so you really can't quantify it. User error will take longer than any "potential" benefits. However, if you drag race stick to an OEM flywheel to keep rotational inertia between shifts for a shorter boost recovery period, and if you use your car to auto-x, road course, or do any kind of slower speed racing not all out WOT the whole time stick to a lightened flywheel for less drivetrain loss.

I've bought one of the chromoly flywheels before and liked the construction even though I didn't get to test it out before other things came up but it would probably be a happy medium at 13-14 lbs. I've considered getting another one instead of machining the OEM flywheel. With a lightened flywheel I did notice it would take some getting used to starting out from a stop. After a few times you get the hang of it. If anyone else drives your car they will kill it all the time until they develop muscle memory for the engagement. You can still engage the clutch without blipping the throttle hardly at all.

[sergechronos]

I just picked up a lightly used lightweight flywheel because I couldn't find a used OEM flywheel that was able to be machined and still work. 125 for a lightweight vs 300+ for a new OEM was a no brainer for me. And even had I not gotten the deal on the lightweight, I probably would've gone with a chromoly since like Turbo said its closer to factory weight and pretty durable.

[JasonY]

I dont like driving a stock FW car. I like to rev match my downshifts and the stock FW is very sluggish compared to a nice LW one.

Jason

[SUTHNR]

FWIW, looking at the pictures... the "IPS" flywheel looks to BE the Competition Clutch flywheel.

Buying flywheels is like any other part - different parts will be good for different situations each buyer must decide what is best for their particular application. Cars that see a lot of drag racing would be better benefited with a stock-weight or at least only lightly reduced weight flywheel to help keep engine RPMs up during shifts. While a road course car that doesn't have the hard slip launch can benefit from a lighter flywheel. Cars that are street and never go to the track I have no problem recommending a lightweight flywheel as it doesn't get the heat cycles of racing and long term is cheaper as you are only replacing a faceplate every so often as opposed to a whole flywheel, and can run the same backing for many years.

EricB