No spark, help!

[DeadOhioSky39]

Ok it's a '91 Stealth Base. Ran into a problem where the car wouldn't idle once it got warmed up. When you let off the gas and started engine braking the check engine light would come on when it got down to maybe 2500rpm and then go off around 1500 rpm or whenever you got back in the gas. Other than that it drove fine for the most part. So yesterday i was driving along maybe 45mph in 5th and it just died completely. It cranks over but doesn't even try to start. I've checked every fuse on the car. There is no spark getting to the spark plugs. Any ideas?

[Lithium]

Does the check engine light come on while the key is in the run position?

[DeadOhioSky39]

Yes it does. For about 5 seconds or so then goes out. A few other lights like the battery, oil, and Emergency brake light stay on.

[OhioSpyderman]

Ever have the ECU worked on?

My guess is leaky ECU capacitors....

http://stealth316.com/2-ecmremoval.htm

*Thanks Jeff*

Bob. :)

[DeadOhioSky39]

No, I've not done anything to the ECU. It's basically stock other than an exhaust. I've never really had any plans to modify it because it will always be slow. :) I'm just hoping to keep it running for another year or so until i get out of school and can afford to buy a more reliable daily and a fun weekend car that's worth putting money into.

I'll try to get out there later today to get a look at the ECU and see if the area around the capacitors look similar to those. Thanks for helping guys.

[DeadOhioSky39]

I actually have the ECU out of a parts car I had. Problem is I cannot remember which one it was. It was either a 1g SL or a 1g base Stealth. So obviously different motors and i would assume if it is the SL then i wouldn't be able to just swap it in.It says remanufactured on it. Purchashed August 27, 2001.

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q289/deadohiosky39/IMG_20100928_142223.jpg
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q289/deadohiosky39/IMG_20100928_142230.jpg
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q289/deadohiosky39/IMG_20100928_142723.jpg

[RL7]

Read the code(s). That's what the check engine light is for.

http://www.stealth316.com/2-diagcodes91-93.htm

A datalogger makes this easier and you may be able to get the CEL to flash the code, but I think that's an OBDII thing.

[DeadOhioSky39]

I'm not sure that my car even has OBDI. Isn't it too old? And doesn't the check engine light have to stay on to pick up the code? I'm not sure how the code readers work exactly. I know my dad has one but I think it is OBDII only but I could be wrong.

[OhioSpyderman]

The ECU pictured is for a 92-93 DOHC....

It appears to me that the capacitors have already been replace in this ECU...

Is this the one from the car?

Bob.

[DeadOhioSky39]

I had two parts cars both 1g, an SL and a Stealth Base. I just took off what i needed at the time and then took off a bunch of stuff that I might need later before getting rid of them. I was unsure of which car this ECU came off of but I guess by your statement it must be the SL. I haven't gotten a chance to take the ECU out of my car yet.

[Steve '92ES]

I'm not sure that my car even has OBDI. Isn't it too old?
Nope, you have OBDI. What you're too old for is OBDII (96+)


And doesn't the check engine light have to stay on to pick up the code?
Not necessarily. Some codes are stored, some are not. Its defiantly worth checking. RL7 linked you to the procedure, just keep in mind you MUST use either an analog meter as shown, or a low voltage test light.


I know my dad has one but I think it is OBDII only but I could be wrong.
Chances are its OBDII and won't work for you.

This is a SOHC with a cap and rotor. right? How old is the tune-up? (Plugs, wires, cap, & rotor)

[OhioSpyderman]

Woot...Steve '92ES on the job!!!!

Bob. :)

[Lithium]

The only reason why I asked if the check engine light was on is to make sure the ECU is getting power. My next step would be to check crank/ cam shaft sensors and the connections at the Ignition module. Use a multimeter to check the harness for broken wires before you jump the gun on your ECU.


You will be able to find all the info you need here http://www.stealth316.com/0-home.htm



Sorry, Im clueless when it come to SOHC ignore me.

[DeadOhioSky39]

OK from the looks of it, the capacitors are fine. At least compared to the leaky ones on the Stealth316 guide which is good considering the spare ecu I have is for a DOHC car.

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q289/deadohiosky39/IMG_20100928_162518.jpg
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q289/deadohiosky39/IMG_20100928_162629.jpg
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q289/deadohiosky39/IMG_20100928_162629.jpg
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q289/deadohiosky39/IMG_20100928_162640.jpg

Yes it has a cap and rotor. We replaced the cap last night and it didn't change anything. I was thinking we've done the rotor in the last year but I could be wrong. I ran into a problem awhile ago where as soon as you tapped the brakes it would cut the power to the car for a split second. You could hear it click and the radio would start to shut off and come right back on. I still don't know what that was from. It just quit doing it one day. I'm really not sure on when the plugs and wires were replaced.

I've been around for quite awhile (on the old site) but having a DD base I've never had much to contribute. I met quite a few nice guys at the Indianapolis NG back in the day but haven't really kept up with it much. But I appreciate everyone trying to help.

[colt45 gto]

the coil is at the back of the plenum, i believe the wires get real hot round there and go brittle. make sure the wires didn't break on the coil or leading to it.

[OhioSpyderman]

The only reason why I asked if the check engine light was on is to make sure the ECU is getting power. My next step would be to check crank/ cam shaft sensors and the connections at the Ignition module. Use a multimeter to check the harness for broken wires before you jump the gun on your ECU.


You will be able to find all the info you need here http://www.stealth316.com/0-home.htm



Sorry, Im clueless when it come to SOHC ignore me.

You put in your opinion...nothing wrong with that...at least you responded :)

I was wrong (have been on numerous occasions, but when it comes to first gen no spark issues, I always ask about the state of the ECU first...).

Good info David :)

Bob.

P.S.: I agree with your assessment of the ECU...I think those are replacement caps as well (I believe ALL of the bad capacitors were BLACK in color, and I see a blue one in the pic [also the others look rather new as well]).

[colt45 gto]

i might not be right but its worth checking. i had to replace a few connectors around there on a car or two.

[DeadOhioSky39]

Checked the codes with the analog meter. It does the same thing that the video on 316 does for no error or normal code. just sweeps back and forth. So i'm guessing that means it's not storing the codes that was making the check engine light come on. I've unplugged the battery since driving it so I don't know if that would have erased in codes it was storing or not. I guess the next step is to check crank/ cam shaft sensors and the connections at the Ignition module as lithium suggested. I think the wires at the coil are fine.

[DeadOhioSky39]

Do you guys know what other motors would have a crank sensor that is interchangeable with mine? I know my brothers 2000 Eclipse has the 3.0 v6 but I don't know if it's all the same. The reason I am asking is because all the crank sensors i'm finding from auto parts places are $350 bucks. I'd hate to spend the money on one if it doesn't fix the problem and then not be able to take it back. I was hoping to be able to go to a junk yard and snag one off of a car there to see if that worked.

[RL7]

You can test the sensor with a multimeter. Hook it to the sensor wire and the ground and pass a piece of metal through it. The voltage should change when you do that. It's not much, like 0.5V or something like that. You can also turn the engine by hand and monitor the signal at the connector. That's probably a better way.

[Steve '92ES]

Hook it to the sensor wire and the ground and pass a piece of metal through it.
He has a '91, so he has the older style sensor driven off the cam. Nothing to "pass a piece of metal through" on those (I believe they're optical anyway). You could do it by taking the sensor out and spinning it by hand but then you have to make sure it's aligned correctly when you put it back in.
What I find easier is to tack solder a couple of test wires to the back of the pins on the ECU connector. Hook everything back up and run the wires back out to where you can reach them. With the meter (-) connected to ground and the meter (+) on one of the two signal wires you should be able to see a pulse while cranking. (Of course you will need to test both signals, one at a time)
Looking at my '91 diagrams for the SOHC engine you'll need to tack wires onto:
Pin 106 (ground)
Pin22 (Top Dead Center)
Pin 21 (Crank Angle)

When you're done be sure to remove the wires or insulate them well so they can't short out.

If you do find a problem you might try cleaning the sensor before shelling out for another one.
Like I said I believe they're optical so any crud buildup could be causing it to fail. A good douching could save you $400...

[DeadOhioSky39]

Found out today that the timing belt is broke. I'm guessing that if i replace that it will start running again but probably still have the not idling/check engine light on decel problem.

[OhioSpyderman]

Found out today that the timing belt is broke. I'm guessing that if i replace that it will start running again but probably still have the not idling/check engine light on decel problem.

SOHC (non interference)?

If not, you have more issues...

Bob.

[DeadOhioSky39]

Yeah I believe it is non-interference thankfully. The belt looks in good shape so I'm actually surprised that it broke. We noticed the rotor wasn't turning when the motor would crank over. Take the timing belt cover off and voila. I'll pick a belt up tomorrow and see what happens.

[DeadOhioSky39]

Got the belt water pump and pulley, going to see if grandpa has the tool to hold the crank to get the crank pulley off (he retired as a chrysler mechanic and has more tools than anyone I know). Then we can get the water pump off and start putting things back together.

[DeadOhioSky39]

Got everything back together and it started right up. It still won't idle after it gets warmed up though. I haven't driven it yet but for a long time before the belt broke it wasn't idling, the check engine light would come on under engine braking from maybe 3 down to 2k rpm and then go off, and sometimes a little backfire through the exhaust. Any ideas what would cause this?

[CoreyB]

Check the specs on the engine coolant temp sensor. Thats a likely cause.

[DeadOhioSky39]

New plugs, wires, and temp sensor. The check engine light isn't coming on anymore under engine braking but still won't idle after it warms up.

[CoreyB]

If you turn the wheel or turn the AC up do the RPMs rise ? If not the ISC is bad.

[DeadOhioSky39]

We might have a winner. According to the 316 site the resistance across the pins should all be between 28 and 33 ohms. It was 27.5 between pins 4 and 5 and 14.3 between pins 5 and 6.
http://www.stealth316.com/2-isc-iac.htm

[CoreyB]

I wouldnt use that ISC again. They destroy ECUs when the go bad.

[Steve '92ES]

Yeah, that 14.3 would make me nervous. I agree with Corey, don't plug that back in!
You might want to get to know Rock Auto, they seem to have the best deal on these..
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carcode,1098772,parttype,6072
( the AC99 seems to be the hot deal..)

[DeadOhioSky39]

It should be here Tuesday afternoon. Pepboys was the only one that had one in stock and they wanted 139 for it. Everyone else (Advance Auto, O'Reily, Autozone) was $85. Exact same part, brand and everything, everyone else just had 1 or 2 year warranties while pepboys was a life time warranty.

[DeadOhioSky39]

Well, got it installed and so far it has fixed the problem. Thank you everyone for all the suggestions. I really appreciate all the effort.

[CoreyB]

Thats great news. Glad we could help.

[DeadOhioSky39]

Well, drove it to school today. Went about 10 miles down the highway, stopped to get gas, started right back up and idled fine. Got another few miles up the road to a stop light and it stalled. Kept doing it the rest of the way. Pulled in to the parking lot, turned the AC on and you could hear it kick on and the rpms pick up and it would idle fine. Shut the AC off and it dies. I don't know why it was fine last night and most of the way today.

[OhioSpyderman]

Did you unplug the battery during the installation (or anytime recently)?

Bob. :)

[DeadOhioSky39]

Yes, I had the battery out during installation.

[OhioSpyderman]

It takes a while for our ECU's to relearn a proper idle after a reset (a battery pull).

Give it a few days and see if it still dies at idle (the other thing you might try, is to turn out your BISS a bit to raise the idle temporarily....)

Also, are you running re-circed or open air (BOV)?

Bob. :)

[DeadOhioSky39]

I'm NA, but thank you, I'll give it a shot.

[CoreyB]

Sounds like the Biss is adjusted incorrectly. The car is probably running fine untill the temp is up to normal operating temp. Then the ECU tells the ISC to go to low idle which is set to low.