R-34 vs. z16

[IPD]

I've been hearing a lot about R-34's being able to be imported soon, due to the age of the car. I'm kinda scratching my head though. There's a LOT of adoration for the GT-R out there, almost as much as there is hate for the GTO. Both cars were twin-turbocharged, twin-intercooled, AWD and AWS. They are far more alike than dissimilar. Is it just a novelty thing in the USA? It's like some people think that the transverse engine in a GTO (and the transfer case) somehow results in a 50% drivetrain loss. And the GTO has .4L more displacement.

Anyone?

[R/T93]

They are rare. That is the allure.

Import a GT500 mustang into Japan or Europe and see the looks you will get.

R34 also had actual technology into their drivetrains rather than the stuff designed in 1989 they stuffed into 3/S's.

[keo92stealth]

The gtr is far superior imo . If I had the chance to own one , I would .

[Ange]

Guess people think the 3s looks more ricy. Also the weight of the 3s is always complained about. The GTR weighs 450-1000 lbs less from factory depending on year model. Also the fact that the GTR can change from awd to 2wd makes it more attractive to drifters.

But yeah the 3s has alot of undeserved bad rep.

[mehrshadvr4]

Guess people think the 3s looks more ricy. Also the weight of the 3s is always complained about. The GTR weighs 450-1000 lbs less from factory depending on year model. Also the fact that the GTR can change from awd to 2wd makes it more attractive to drifters.

But yeah the 3s has alot of undeserved bad rep.
what GTR was 1000lbs lighter than vr4? the r32 was the lightest and that was about 300-400lbs lighter. the GTR is a legend in japan. all the way before even r32 comes in to play let alon gto because of the races it had won. i think the weight of GTO has something to do with it and the fact that mitsubishi pretty much never put the gto in any race vs nissan put the gtr in all kind of races it could get in to. the r34 was faster because of more power it made and had better suspension setup for track and awd system and aero for more downforce. also only r32 you can switch to rwd with out damagin anything. a lot of people don't know it ,but GTO stock to stock was faster than all r32 gtrs and was neck and neck with r33 gtr in tsukuba track .but gtr never had brake fading like gto had because of it was built for track vs mitsubishi to make a car to make money out of. Nissan came up with even faster cars like V versions,nurburgring, z-tune,and 400r and such to keep it up there. nissan did a great job supporting the GTR where mitsubishi didn't give a damn about advancing the GTO beside making it prettier so they can sell more. the aftermarket support on GTRs is crazy, but it's not cheap to make them fast.plus it has inline 6 where a lot of tuners believed were the best for tuning vs v6.they believed in that till the new gtr which is a v6 and it's the only v6 in the market that's getting so much support. the 300zx didn't get as much support because of that i believe, but the engine wasn't there anyway. it has only 8 main bolts so of course it wouldn't hold power reliably. the 6g72 had shitty crank to hold power as well. people trashed main bearings with only 700-800whp, but now with the availability of stronger crank it can be very reliable but we still lack support in some area to make it maximum reliable in high power levels.

[keo92stealth]

^ I agree . The .gtr r32 is the lightest . Think its like 3200 or something close also your right about the gtr and how it dominated the circuit racing it was involved in . Won it for years and years in a row . The gtr had aftermarket support from day one and still does. Where as nobody gives 2 shits about the gto in japan . Just look at the old high performance import volume videos from back in the 90s and look at the drag racing and so on . I have never seen a gto out there . Not once . But yea when it comes to building one properly , it's just as much as a supra price wise . Costs you a arm and leg.

But I thought that all the gtrs had that 2wd feature . Only 4wd when u need it . Because I meet a dude that had one. He said once the tires in rear broke lose , it would throw some power to the front to try to get traction .

[IPD]

3/s is ricey? yikes. that's exactly what i've always thought about the gtr's. and yes, stock for stock; year to year, the gto was quicker.

i wouldn't say mitsubishi neglected it though. they did make the mr's.

[Ange]

3/s is ricey? yikes. that's exactly what i've always thought about the gtr's. and yes, stock for stock; year to year, the gto was quicker.

i wouldn't say mitsubishi neglected it though. they did make the mr's.

I don't think they are. Just heard other people say it.

A problem with the 3s these days is that they are so cheap, some people will buy them and make cheap tasteless mods.

[whitedragon]

I would rock an R32, R33 or R34 so hard, I just might die from it.

[R/T93]

3/s is ricey? yikes. that's exactly what i've always thought about the gtr's. and yes, stock for stock; year to year, the gto was quicker.

i wouldn't say mitsubishi neglected it though. they did make the mr's.

They made the mr. Ok so... drop aws, MAYBE you got the sport wheels and the brakes. Thats all a z15 is. Oh. Brake deflectors.
All the gtr factory sport versions were full upgrades rather than just a few extra parts.

So compared to Nissan the GTO was neglected in factory aftermarket support.

From the phone.

[IPD]

i guess i can see that. still...it doesn't compute in my mind. people were spending $20,000+ importing those things. i don't think the 3/s is a $20,000 worse car...

[sergechronos]

It's all perception. For most Americans, their first exposure to the Skyline was via Gran Turismo, or maybe Initial D, depending on what circles you floated in. The fact you couldn't get it in America just sort of added to the appeal factor for people because it seemed so exclusive, even after you were allowed to import them that meant the people buying them had tons of money.

Factor in the Skyline being used in a variety of racing series (thus the generation of parts from big time R&D departments for racing that trickled down), plus the same motor or variations there of being used for almost 20 years means that some parts and knowledge is applicable across the whole spectrum, as well as the ability to adapt and modify older parts into newer vehicles and vice versa. Similar to the Civic, or even the Fox Body Mustang, both platforms that also used the same motors and parts for very long periods of time and were used in racing that now have massive amount of R&D money thrown at the platform.

The 3/S doesn't really fit into that mold. The bad reputation from the transmission/transfer case problems hurt it, as did the perception that they're massively heavy. Additionally, the VR4 was pretty much tuned to the fullest extent of the parts that were on it, so any upgrading of say, your turbos means that you have to upgrade the whole fuel system. Compared to a Supra which came with a bigger fuel pump, and 440cc injectors, the VR4 is pretty much at the edge of it's capabilities out of the box. Toss in all the stuff like AWS and the ECS which had a tendency to fail, and the car just got a reputation for being a fat, slow, expensive money pit that was always broken. The 3000GTs relatively short run didn't help bring the cost of parts down, and the lack of usage in racing didn't help either.

As the Skyline, Supra and even the RX7 & 8 all started in the late 70s and early 80s and kept fairly similar power trains as the previous generations, they just have a lot more to draw from. Then you look at the American vehicles available at the time as well with the Mustang, Camaro and Vette getting their usual support and the years of aftermarket support, really the GTO was kind of doomed from the beginning when you consider it all. The only way the GTO could've truly succeeded would've been for Mitsubishi to have either kept the same powertrain as the Starion/Conquest (which also didn't sell terribly well), or given it the same powertrain as the Evo or Eclipse GSX (unlikely), or to have shifted support away from the Evo and to the GTO to get it competing against the Skyline and Supra in racing series. The 6G72 motor didn't come about until 87 in the Caravan and even then it was a SOHC. The DOHC version was in a relatively small number of vehicles during the existence of the GTO, especially here in the states. Given the lack of carry over for parts between the various 6G7 motors, essentially introducing a new motor for a new car created a crapton of problems and made things even more expensive.

Let's not forget though, the 3/S platform lasted about as long as the Supra, and the only reason the Skyline line continued was because they ditched the I6 and turbos and went with a standard V6, no turbos and turned it into what was more or less a luxury car (Infiniti G35).

[J-Groove]

Easy, our cars were built to compete against the GTR..the R32 that is. Then Nisan came out with the R33, the 3SGTO had a bump in boost and still outperformed the car. Look at a stock vs stock for a 3SGTO, an R32 and a R33 you will see our cars are more capable (stock).

Then Nissan brought out the R34, this is now 3 generations past the 3SGTO and is a far superior car stock for stock.

-John

[vr4tune]

They made the mr. Ok so... drop aws, MAYBE you got the sport wheels and the brakes. Thats all a z15 is. Oh. Brake deflectors.
All the gtr factory sport versions were full upgrades rather than just a few extra parts.

So compared to Nissan the GTO was neglected in factory aftermarket support.

From the phone.

you forgot the titanium shift knob for faster shifting.

[AdamVR4]

The gtr is far superior imo . If I had the chance to own one , I would .

This contribution was strong to very strong.

I know virtually nothing about the R34 and this thread didn't change that at all.

[sergechronos]

you forgot the titanium shift knob for faster shifting.

And the MR badges. For horsepower of course.

[stealthee]

It's simple. The 3000GT/GTO was available in the US, the Skyline was not.

[keo92stealth]

It's simple. The 3000GT/GTO was available in the US, the Skyline was not.
This is true . Should have imported this instead of the 300zx.

[keo92stealth]

This contribution was strong to very strong.

I know virtually nothing about the R34 and this thread didn't change that at all.

Adam I love the 3s platform . But if I could afford any gtr 32 33 or 34 I would . I mean everything is there . Aftermarket support wise. What cant you buy for these things . Yea its expensive as shit but if you could afford a skyline in general who cares . And besides the drivetrain and engine in it is the shit . One of the best I6 motors of all time wity exception to the 2jz. the rb26 is legendary for sure . And besides the fact that skylines were running 8s on street dot approved tires 15 yrs ago and ran 7s around the same time .

Again adam , this is my opinion .

[mehrshadvr4]

Adam I love the 3s platform . But if I could afford any gtr 32 33 or 34 I would . I mean everything is there . Aftermarket support wise. What cant you buy for these things . Yea its expensive as shit but if you could afford a skyline in general who cares . And besides the drivetrain and engine in it is the shit . One of the best I6 motors of all time wity exception to the 2jz. the rb26 is legendary for sure . And besides the fact that skylines were running 8s on street dot approved tires 15 yrs ago and ran 7s around the same time .

Again adam , this is my opinion .

that's exactly what's wrong with this platform. people who can't afford their dream cars or anything buy 3/s.

[keo92stealth]

that's exactly what's wrong with this platform. people who can't afford their dream cars or anything buy 3/s.

What is that supposed to mean ?? Everything on my 3s is new . Fully built with love just doesnt run at the moment .so don't sit up here and tell me every 3s owners dream car Is a 3000gt or stealth . I love my car man. I brought my car in 2010 so I'm still a rookie to most . Its now 2013 and my car has been broke since I bought it in 10. Haven't really driven it . So your telling me I don't have love for the platform after 20,000 plus dollars and I'm still not driving it after 3 yrs of ownership . Get out of my face .

Besides I said if I could afford one . That doesn't mean I wouldn't own a 3000gt /stealth .

[mehrshadvr4]

i didn't say every 3/s owner's dream car is 3/s. i actually said the exact opposite. there are people here who love 3/s and have one even when they can pretty much buy any car and people who can't afford the supra, nsx,GTR or what ever so 3/s is the next choice for some what fast cars which apply to almost 2/3 if not more of the 3/s owners. i have seen so many 3/s people say the word " I love X car but too bad i can't afford it" that make me embarrassed to own a 3/s and go to other car forums and that's what brought this platform down. full of owners who can't afford to maintain or modify the to be or do something impressive. manufacturers decide to build parts for 3/s but no one can afford to buy them so they say why bother? i have yet to see a beat up mk4-5 supra or nsx , but tons of beat to shit mk3 supras, 3/s or 300Zx and that's because they don't have the cash to pay for their dream cars. i'm not saying you are broke as person, but a properly built 3/s would cot 30-40k and that's how much r32 skyline goes for.

[keo92stealth]

I get your point !! And I have to dis agree with you on one thing . You can have a fun 3s with 20k in upgrades . Hehe lol . Most owners dont even have half that invested . The ones that love their cars do.

Now how about we get back on the subject .

[IPD]

i didn't say every 3/s owner's dream car is 3/s. i actually said the exact opposite. there are people here who love 3/s and have one even when they can pretty much buy any car and people who can't afford the supra, nsx,GTR or what ever so 3/s is the next choice for some what fast cars which apply to almost 2/3 if not more of the 3/s owners. i have seen so many 3/s people say the word " I love X car but too bad i can't afford it" that make me embarrassed to own a 3/s and go to other car forums and that's what brought this platform down. full of owners who can't afford to maintain or modify the to be or do something impressive. manufacturers decide to build parts for 3/s but no one can afford to buy them so they say why bother? i have yet to see a beat up mk4-5 supra or nsx , but tons of beat to shit mk3 supras, 3/s or 300Zx and that's because they don't have the cash to pay for their dream cars. i'm not saying you are broke as person, but a properly built 3/s would cot 30-40k and that's how much r32 skyline goes for.

this is a pet peeve of mine. it's even more annoying when said non-loyalists continue to post on 3/s forums with their NEW obsessions that they have foregone 3/s ownership for.

i don't get the i6 love though. even the r35 has a v6.

[MeTarzan]

I personally am not a fan of the looks of the Skylines....now the r35 is a different story I would def take one of those but I will never sale my Stealth even if it just sits and collects dust I'll pass it on to my son when hes old enough to drive.

[mehrshadvr4]

this is a pet peeve of mine. it's even more annoying when said non-loyalists continue to post on 3/s forums with their NEW obsessions that they have foregone 3/s ownership for.

i don't get the i6 love though. even the r35 has a v6.

it sounds good and has 7 main bearings. the most reliable i6 is 2jz. the rest are equal if not worse than 6g72. the rb has a lot of issue. can't rev too high or you starve the bearing with oil and such and that's even worse with upgraded oil pump. i read somewhere that it's not super reliable either when road race pass 800hp even with dry sump. 6g72 has weak crank issue. upgrade the crank and dry sump and you have a very reliable engines. pit road m's car makes 900hp with stock crank and no dry sump and it runs no problem for hours in the race. RB is like rotary engines. it has so much love that people will tune them no mater how unreliable they are.

[mb7050]

r32 gtr's go for like 5-12k (excluding highly modified cars) in Japan and here they are not that expensive.. Its a Japans corvette.

[hotflarexxx]

We have an Awesome guy on our side here in cali who owns a billet 19t 2nd gen vr4 and a r35. He had said it himself he loves his vr4 as much as the next enthusiast (hence hemorrhaging money into it lol), but the skyline is just on a completely different level. Always has and always will be...I would love to own an r33 or 34 but I would make the vr a weekend only car and dd the skyline lol. All in all They just seem like a fun, legendary car to drive....and I have mangasms over it's Neo futuristic vintage styling lol (if that makes any sense)

[familyMAN]

r32 gtr's go for like 5-12k (excluding highly modified cars) in Japan and here they are not that expensive.. Its a Japans corvette.

This. 12k is definitely on the high side. 1989 R32 will be completely legal next year. I may have heard from a little birdie that it's possible to still get these earlier:suspect:

I'm partial to the R32s but I prefer 1st gen VR4s also:).

I don't understand the comparison threads of 3S vs this or that. Personally, I want them all:D Need a bigger or second garage so I can start living my childhood dream soon (hellbringer has a good start)...collection of 90's Japanese sports cars...VR4 (check), MR2 turbo (need to rebuy one), 300ZX-TT, NSX, R32 GTR, RX7, Supra turbo(maybe, but would probably go mkIII, popups, FTW:))

It's actually an affordable collection now with the exception of a low mileage NSX. Especially since a turbo mkIV supra doesn't totally get me going.

[familyMAN]

it sounds good and has 7 main bearings. the most reliable i6 is 2jz. the rest are equal if not worse than 6g72. the rb has a lot of issue. can't rev too high or you starve the bearing with oil and such and that's even worse with upgraded oil pump. i read somewhere that it's not super reliable either when road race pass 800hp even with dry sump. 6g72 has weak crank issue. upgrade the crank and dry sump and you have a very reliable engines. pit road m's car makes 900hp with stock crank and no dry sump and it runs no problem for hours in the race. RB is like rotary engines. it has so much love that people will tune them no mater how unreliable they are.

Finally, someone in here that isn't blinded by "legend." RB's are definitely not cheap to mod even though many part options are available overseas. Check the prices on strokers vs our stroker setups:). Pretty awesome we can swap in an OEM Mitsu crank and have a full liter over a stock RB25. Or easy swap to bigger engine and another OEM crank and you are 1.1 l over a RB26 even. Our billet cranks are priced well also.

Not saying a 3S is better or worse. Just nice to see some perspective.

And to OP, my understanding is that R34's won't be legal for quite a few years (25 year rule). Only the spec 2 R33's went through crash testing by motorex several years ago. Then they also need conversion to lights, emissions, etc. Many were using the crash testing from the R33s to "legally" register other models including R34's but they technically weren't completely legit and the Feds started cracking down and seizing cars. I've heard others register as a 240sx (with 240 VIN) but that's of course not legit. Others were bringing in pieces as "kit cars." Again, possible to register depending on your state, but not 100% legit. My understanding is, the only legit way now is wait 25 years. (Or go with one of the few models that fall under the crash test data and then spend the time and money to get certified for US).

[sergechronos]

it sounds good and has 7 main bearings. the most reliable i6 is 2jz. the rest are equal if not worse than 6g72. the rb has a lot of issue. can't rev too high or you starve the bearing with oil and such and that's even worse with upgraded oil pump. i read somewhere that it's not super reliable either when road race pass 800hp even with dry sump. 6g72 has weak crank issue. upgrade the crank and dry sump and you have a very reliable engines. pit road m's car makes 900hp with stock crank and no dry sump and it runs no problem for hours in the race. RB is like rotary engines. it has so much love that people will tune them no mater how unreliable they are.

What weak crank issue? If you keep up with maintenance and have a good tune plus proper supporting mods, even the "weak" 2 bolt doesn't run into issues until around 700hp. And with how much money it takes to get 700hp, money isn't an object for you anymore. Rotaries and RBs are the same way, in stock form if you keep up on maintenance (like the 6G72) they will run for a very long time, but start running into problems as you crank up the HP. With the money it takes with all 3 motors to reach very high numbers, you are past the point of money mattering to you.

Most reliable I6 was the 4.0L Jeep ran for the longest time in the Cherokees and the Wranglers.

[sergechronos]

I like the looks of the R34 Skyline as much as I do the GTR. I feel it's a nice blend of import looks with classic muscle styling in a way. The bulges over the wheels, the straight lines, the long nose and short trunk, I mean to me it is a classic styling. R34 looks better than the GTR IMO. Things I don't like about the GTR are the spoiler, the way the side mirrors stick out, and the headlights remind me too much of a 350z and run too far back for my liking. It's little things that ruin the appearance for me.

[keo92stealth]

Finally, someone in here that isn't blinded by "legend." RB's are definitely not cheap to mod even though many part options are available overseas. Check the prices on strokers vs our stroker setups:). Pretty awesome we can swap in an OEM Mitsu crank and have a full liter over a stock RB25. Or easy swap to bigger engine and another OEM crank and you are 1.1 l over a RB26 even. Our billet cranks are priced well also.

Not saying a 3S is better or worse. Just nice to see some perspective.

And to OP, my understanding is that R34's won't be legal for quite a few years (25 year rule). Only the spec 2 R33's went through crash testing by motorex several years ago. Then they also need conversion to lights, emissions, etc. Many were using the crash testing from the R33s to "legally" register other models including R34's but they technically weren't completely legit and the Feds started cracking down and seizing cars. I've heard others register as a 240sx (with 240 VIN) but that's of course not legit. Others were bringing in pieces as "kit cars." Again, possible to register depending on your state, but not 100% legit. My understanding is, the only legit way now is wait 25 years. (Or go with one of the few models that fall under the crash test data and then spend the time and money to get certified for US).

Oh god yes . We have the cheapest stroker motor out off all of them if all you want is 3.5 l. Rb26 stroker to a 2.8 is expensive and I think its discontinued . And the 2jz 3.4 stroker motor is 15000 from titan . Gotta pay to play .

[mehrshadvr4]

What weak crank issue? If you keep up with maintenance and have a good tune plus proper supporting mods, even the "weak" 2 bolt doesn't run into issues until around 700hp. And with how much money it takes to get 700hp, money isn't an object for you anymore. Rotaries and RBs are the same way, in stock form if you keep up on maintenance (like the 6G72) they will run for a very long time, but start running into problems as you crank up the HP. With the money it takes with all 3 motors to reach very high numbers, you are past the point of money mattering to you.

Most reliable I6 was the 4.0L Jeep ran for the longest time in the Cherokees and the Wranglers.
i was talking about when making big power. crank flex and wipe bearings.