Who's who in flash ECU

[BucknVr4]

Are there any differences between the flash ECUs being offered up here or is it mainly healthy competition? Besides Adam's most recent advancement with 94-97 plug and play, are there any advantages of Adam's or Brett's? If I go with the VR4 clone for my 94 TT, will either provide the same functionality? Both support Chrome, right, which is were the real function comes from just as long as the logic exits on either. From what I've read both are excellent people providing excellent work and support. Does it just boil down to knowing who's who?

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

I'm sure I will get flamed, but there are no documented functional differences. Either will get you where you want to go.

[J-Groove]

I'm sure I will get flamed, but there are no documented functional differences. Either will get you where you want to go.

This

Both Adam and Brett have different ways of approaching the same problem. But the end results are a flashable ECU for your 3S that runs Chrome on FlashECU either way you go.

-John

[Greg E]

Do you like your tacos crunchy or soft? Either way, you get full.

[BucknVr4]

Thanks for the confirmation. Definitely not looking to start a pissing match, just wanted to make sure they can be considered the same technically. As far as hardware, do we expect these things to be as far developed as they are going to be, i.e. all possible supported circuits are enabled on either make? I'm reading into your previous posts that they are but I'm wondering if Adam or Brett or both are working on any future R&D they care to elaborate on?

[Greg E]

I talk to both of them just about every day keeping them both up to date on the latest chrome mod I'm working on. Both guys are first to know about anything I am planing and they help me make it happen.

Anything they got in the works is up to them to reveal. Its not my place to share their plans.

[ChargerX3]

You would be fine going with either candidate.

[hated]

Who's Adam, and Who's Brett?

[99 vr4]

Thanks for the confirmation. Definitely not looking to start a pissing match, just wanted to make sure they can be considered the same technically. As far as hardware, do we expect these things to be as far developed as they are going to be, i.e. all possible supported circuits are enabled on either make? I'm reading into your previous posts that they are but I'm wondering if Adam or Brett or both are working on any future R&D they care to elaborate on?

Yes, I have just released the Clone2! The latest addition to the Clone ECU family is BOTH VR4 AND SL compatible! One ECU for both cars!

Basically it is the VR4 Clone ECU with all of the extra circuits for the SL variable intake. This will run Gregs Chrome SL with no problems.

And theoretically you could run variable intake on the VR4... the hardware will support the variable intake, but Greg will have to write the code to support the hardware.


Who's Adam, and Who's Brett?

I am Brett. Adam is Jesters Dead.

[futurevr4man]

Adam is 'jesters deadd' and Brett is '99 vr4'. Greg is 'Greg E' (creative name, I know) ;)

[Greg E]

Adam is 'jesters deadd' and Brett is '99 vr4'. Greg is 'Greg E' (creative name, I know) ;)

My code is creative enough. :)

[J-Groove]

My code is creative enough. :)

This is the truth!

-John

[Greg E]

J-Groove also deserves credit for doing all the work for www.chromedecu.org!

[j2k4]

Who's soft, who's crunchy? :huh:

[futurevr4man]

Who's soft, who's crunchy? :huh:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaG5SAw1n0c

[DrGonzo]

Who's soft, who's crunchy? :huh:

Greg E = Soft "Software"
Adam & Brett = Crunchy "Hardware"



:sorry::dontknow:

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

I like beans and such

[Greg E]

I like beans and such

Racist.

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

Racist.

watch American Dad ?

[BucknVr4]

i love beans - YouTube (http://youtu.be/yt0YnVrfzGM)

[j2k4]

This is all Greg's fault...:sad:

[j2k4]

If it was my idea I would have used the more complimentary term 'smooth' rather than "soft".

But I digress.

[ShootMeNow]

Can anyone point me to a really really basic Flash ECU for dummies? With lots of pictures and stuff? I've searched 3si, here, and the two flash vendor sites but the discussions all dive too deep too quickly for a beginner. Or is it a case of if I have to ask I shouldn't be asking?

Note to Adam and Brett: Sounds like you two have a friendly competition going on and that's great. With 25 years in the computer industry I can tell you what I'm looking for even more than who has the best functionality today... who is going to be here 5, 10, and 20 years down the road? And the way I would gauge that is who has the most\most influential users. You should consider posting on your sites things like # units sold, # units active and on the road, shops supporting\servicing your product. Because plug and play Flash ECU is relatively new, the last thing I want to do is dive in only to find the other choice is the only one still in business. FYI I went with 8 track and Betamax so I'm a little more careful in choosing direction in my old age :)

[Greg E]

Might I suggest watching these videos.

EcuFlash Tutorial Videos | EvoScan (http://www.evoscan.com/news/2011/12/01/ecuflash-tutorial-videos/)

[ShootMeNow]

Might I suggest watching these videos.

EcuFlash Tutorial Videos | EvoScan (http://www.evoscan.com/news/2011/12/01/ecuflash-tutorial-videos/)

Thank you Greg, on it now!

[99 vr4]

Can anyone point me to a really really basic Flash ECU for dummies? With lots of pictures and stuff? I've searched 3si, here, and the two flash vendor sites but the discussions all dive too deep too quickly for a beginner. Or is it a case of if I have to ask I shouldn't be asking?

Note to Adam and Brett: Sounds like you two have a friendly competition going on and that's great. With 25 years in the computer industry I can tell you what I'm looking for even more than who has the best functionality today... who is going to be here 5, 10, and 20 years down the road? And the way I would gauge that is who has the most\most influential users. You should consider posting on your sites things like # units sold, # units active and on the road, shops supporting\servicing your product. Because plug and play Flash ECU is relatively new, the last thing I want to do is dive in only to find the other choice is the only one still in business. FYI I went with 8 track and Betamax so I'm a little more careful in choosing direction in my old age :)

I don't post bragging rights for various reasons . . . But in a nutshell, I have sold over 60 units with about 15 going to the international markets, primarily the UK (used for racing), France, and Australia. The Clone units are the only units that will work with the stock ROMs (VR4 OR SL) or Greg's Chrome ROM with out any problems or CEL's.

Who is going to be here in 5, 10, and 20 years? That is any ones guess. I don't think any one can really answer that. What I can say is that I have been in this community since the early 1990's and have been making parts since the early 2000's for the 3000GTs. I have been on 3si since August 2000 (when I moved to the St Louis Region) and 3sgto since October 2010.... AND I expect to be around for many more years to come.

And IF the time ever comes that I decide to get out of this community, I will certianly pass my trade off to some one else or even open source it so that any electrical tech will be able to maintain units that are out there!

BTW, I went with VHS, but we did have 8-track . . . and I started out as an EE student, but ended up working about 15 years in the IT business starting out as a 4th Gen Client Server Software Developer then moving to Network Support and finally Web Architecture and Network Infrastructure Design as a Consultant when I decided to make the jump to the Army.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask!

[ShootMeNow]

Thank you both for not taking offense at my questions, obviously none was meant. I'll even be nice about that para-military organization you joined :)

But seriously, I'm convinced. My question now is what does the Flash ECU take the place of? In other words, from what I've read I think I can save the expense of a separate boost controller and possibly an FPR, correct? Is there anything else I would not need to buy as I upgrade my fuel system and turbos?

One thought I had was that I wouldn't need expensive boost and other gauges. I could simply mount a tablet PC and use the chrome simulators. Or am I confusing something here?

[aaronatstate]

The Clone units are the only units that will work with the stock ROMs (VR4 OR SL) or Greg's Chrome ROM with out any problems or CEL's.

This is not true. Adam's will do the same thing without any problems or CEL's as well. I have been running one of Adam's fully converted ECUs for almost a year now, with no problems or CEL's. I am even now running one of his plug and play ECUs also with zero problems or CEL's.

The truth is either Adam's or Brett's ECUs will work with no problems, if installed correctly. It's really up to you who you want to buy yours from, but they are both quality units that will give you full tuneability with the stock ECU.

[95gto]

This is not true. Adam's will do the same thing without any problems or CEL's as well. I have been running one of Adam's fully converted ECUs for almost a year now, with no problems or CEL's. I am even now running one of his plug and play ECUs also with zero problems or CEL's.

The truth is either Adam's or Brett's ECUs will work with no problems, if installed correctly. It's really up to you who you want to buy yours from, but they are both quality units that will give you full tuneability with the stock ECU.

I think Brett's comment is referring to his ecu's ability to operate all portions of the VR4 or SL hardware, most VR4 ecu's lack the ability to operate the variable intake runner function of the SL due to the hardware being absent.

Has Adam incorporated this type of change to his plug and plays?

[Greg E]

I think Brett's comment is referring to his ecu's ability to operate all portions of the VR4 or SL hardware, most VR4 ecu's lack the ability to operate the variable intake runner function of the SL due to the hardware being absent.

Has Adam incorporated this type of change to his plug and plays?

Depends. If the board came with that hardware, Adam leaves it on. The SL ecu in my 98 is a "two way" clone he made for code testing purposes.

[aaronatstate]

I think Brett's comment is referring to his ecu's ability to operate all portions of the VR4 or SL hardware, most VR4 ecu's lack the ability to operate the variable intake runner function of the SL due to the hardware being absent.

Has Adam incorporated this type of change to his plug and plays?

If I misunderstood his meaning, well then that is my fault. I just interepreted it that way. It's early on a Monday though haha.

Like I said, both ECUs will work if installed correctly. Each have their benefits, Bretts being you can use it either in a VR-4or SL without issue, and Adam's being you do not need an adapter harness.

I'm not sure if Adam's PnP can do both VR-4 and SL or not.

[Jesters Deadd]

Can anyone point me to a really really basic Flash ECU for dummies? With lots of pictures and stuff? I've searched 3si, here, and the two flash vendor sites but the discussions all dive too deep too quickly for a beginner. Or is it a case of if I have to ask I shouldn't be asking?

Note to Adam and Brett: Sounds like you two have a friendly competition going on and that's great. With 25 years in the computer industry I can tell you what I'm looking for even more than who has the best functionality today... who is going to be here 5, 10, and 20 years down the road? And the way I would gauge that is who has the most\most influential users. You should consider posting on your sites things like # units sold, # units active and on the road, shops supporting\servicing your product. Because plug and play Flash ECU is relatively new, the last thing I want to do is dive in only to find the other choice is the only one still in business. FYI I went with 8 track and Betamax so I'm a little more careful in choosing direction in my old age :)


I don't post bragging rights for various reasons . . . But in a nutshell, I have sold over 60 units with about 15 going to the international markets, primarily the UK (used for racing), France, and Australia. The Clone units are the only units that will work with the stock ROMs (VR4 OR SL) or Greg's Chrome ROM with out any problems or CEL's.

Who is going to be here in 5, 10, and 20 years? That is any ones guess. I don't think any one can really answer that. What I can say is that I have been in this community since the early 1990's and have been making parts since the early 2000's for the 3000GTs. I have been on 3si since August 2000 (when I moved to the St Louis Region) and 3sgto since October 2010.... AND I expect to be around for many more years to come.

And IF the time ever comes that I decide to get out of this community, I will certianly pass my trade off to some one else or even open source it so that any electrical tech will be able to maintain units that are out there!

BTW, I went with VHS, but we did have 8-track . . . and I started out as an EE student, but ended up working about 15 years in the IT business starting out as a 4th Gen Client Server Software Developer then moving to Network Support and finally Web Architecture and Network Infrastructure Design as a Consultant when I decided to make the jump to the Army.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask!

The Plug and Play Flash Ecus have 60 plus happy customers with multiple international customers as well. There is 6 plus months of everyday useage on the early sales and some race cars running them.
I have been on 3SI since like 2001 when I got my first 3S in college. Since then I have graduated and got a real job and have owned 5 of these cars.:D

We both have great equipment. We just have different installation packages.
Some of my ECUs have the VR4/SL functionality but its a custom request only right now.
I will go open source when I get sick of this stuff as well.

@ Brett when you get tired of all this you should sell out to me.;)

[Jesters Deadd]

Greg E = Soft "Software"
Adam & Brett = Crunchy "Hardware"



I like to think of myself as the Doritos Tacos. :D

[ShootMeNow]

So let me ask again... Do the flash ECUs eliminate the need for purchasing a hardware boost controller? I thought I read that I wouldn't need a new FPR as well. Is this correct?

[Greg E]

I'm sure a little easy research will answer your questions. ;)

[aaronatstate]

I like to think of myself as the Doritos Tacos. :D

I'm the Beefy Crunch Burrito.

[Jesters Deadd]

So let me ask again... Do the flash ECUs eliminate the need for purchasing a hardware boost controller? I thought I read that I wouldn't need a new FPR as well. Is this correct?

Yes you can use your stock boost controlling harware.
Chromed ECU | Turbo (http://chromedecu.org/?page_id=888)

Your stock fuel pressure regulator will flow a good amount of fuel. I like adjustability thats why I changed mine.
I'm not sure of the limit of the stock fpr.

[95gto]

I'm the Beefy Crunch Burrito.


If I misunderstood his meaning, well then that is my fault. I just interepreted it that way. It's early on a Monday though haha.

Like I said, both ECUs will work if installed correctly. Each have their benefits, Bretts being you can use it either in a VR-4or SL without issue, and Adam's being you do not need an adapter harness.

I'm not sure if Adam's PnP can do both VR-4 and SL or not.

No worries :bigthumb:

[ShootMeNow]

Yes you can use your stock boost controlling harware.
Chromed ECU | Turbo (http://chromedecu.org/?page_id=888)

Your stock fuel pressure regulator will flow a good amount of fuel. I like adjustability thats why I changed mine.
I'm not sure of the limit of the stock fpr.

Thanks Jester! So it looks like not having to buy a boost controller or an safc jut about pays for the Flash ECU!

The last question is gauges... believe me I'm reading my a$$ off but there is a lot.. multiple forums, your site, chrome sites, the video tutorials Greg recommended, it's a lot to understand. But it looks like with the tuning and logging software and PC I'll need, if I just get a windows tablet I can mount it and run the software in place of buying expensive gauges. Am I reading that wrong?

[Jesters Deadd]

Thanks Jester! So it looks like not having to buy a boost controller or an safc jut about pays for the Flash ECU!

The last question is gauges... believe me I'm reading my a$$ off but there is a lot.. multiple forums, your site, chrome sites, the video tutorials Greg recommended, it's a lot to understand. But it looks like with the tuning and logging software and PC I'll need, if I just get a windows tablet I can mount it and run the software in place of buying expensive gauges. Am I reading that wrong?

Many of my customers make money after selling their SAFC and aftermarket BC and old ecu. They used to make a lot of money but the resell value on non flash ecus has really gone down.

[FluffyCow]

Many of my customers make money after selling their SAFC and aftermarket BC and old ecu. They used to make a lot of money but the resell value on non flash ecus has really gone down.

Fwiw I broke even and that was about 2 months ago(ecu and safc; traded ebc for otger needed stuffs)

[99 vr4]

Some of my ECUs have the VR4/SL functionality but its a custom request only right now.

@ Brett when you get tired of all this you should sell out to me.;)

Sooooo what you're saying is not all of your ECUs are the same?

And I have a better idea, why don't you just give me back my domain names that you registered in .org?

[Greg E]

And I have a better idea, why don't you just give me back my domain names that you registered in .org?

Sounds fair.

[Alan92RTTT]

Sooooo what you're saying is not all of your ECUs are the same?

And I have a better idea, why don't you just give me back my domain names that you registered in .org?

I just looked that's playing dirty.

Sniping someones website name off a different domain is wrong. Picking up the .org and .co for Brett's site is a cheap shot.

[Jesters Deadd]

Sure we can work something out.
PM me.

[aaronatstate]

Sooooo what you're saying is not all of your ECUs are the same?

Who the hell cares if they are the same or not. The ecus were not the same the factory so what difference does it make if they are the same in aftermarket form???

[Greg E]

Who the hell cares if they are the same or not. The ecus were not the same the factory so what difference does it make if they are the same in aftermarket form???

The term is called "pety dig".

[99 vr4]

Who the hell cares if they are the same or not. The ecus were not the same the factory so what difference does it make if they are the same in aftermarket form???

Whoah trigger, your missing the point. From a purely business standpoint, if you buy two of the same widget, you expect them to be reasonably the same. And if your buddy buys a widget and raves all about it, you expect to get the same product. Right?

And obviously we are not so literal that we don't ignore things such as options, like color or specific features, like (back in the day) whether a tv is cable ready or not.

Now in this case, your buddy orders an ECU. He raves about it. There is not much in the form of options. What options there are, are usually denoted up front. In the case of Adam's earlier ECU's, this usually revolved around circuits like boost control. BUT the customer was aware of the differences, that is the point.

If you make a product, and some include a feature, and some do not, and the customer does NOT know, this can become a real issue, especially when he raves about how good it is. The person who hears these accolades might not know that it is an option, and imagine his dismay when he buys one new or used and it does not work as advertised?

Lets put this another way to ensure you understand... If (insert your favorite burger joint) sometimes used ground chuck, or ground angus, or ground buffalo, or 70/30 ground meat with the pink slime, or 90/10 ground sirloin, basically what ever was cheapest or on sale every time they went shopping, in order to make there burgers, you can imagine the consistency issues, and the customer issues, they would have.

Additionally from a manufacturing standpoint, consistency is key. It helps with brand recognition, brand stability, and helps to promote an overall good customer experience.

This is why from day one, all of my ECU's have been "Clones". Now they are all "Clone 2's". The major point is that with manufacturing consistency, I can ensure that my brand projects a higher degree of professionalism, along with keeping my customers, both new purchasers and those purchasing used product, more than 100% satisfied. It stops that "made in the garage" experience.

Of course maybe you don't care if your ECU has mounting ears in one position or another. Or maybe you don't care if you know if the insides are the same as your buddies... But this leads to other questions, like what else is different? Could something else be wrong?

I personally like to know 100% when I buy something what I am getting... I was never the "grab bag" kind of guy... Maybe you are.


The term is called "pety dig".

The term is more accurately called "inside jab".... But I suppose only Adam and I would know this...

[ShootMeNow]

I hadn't really thought about this before reading what you just said. So by "clone" you mean you manufacture the ECU from scratch, while I assume Adam's is a converted stock or Mitsubishi manufactured ECU. Is that correct?

Edit: Removed follow on questions based on Greg's comment below. Thanks Greg!

[Greg E]

I hadn't really thought about this before reading what you just said. So by "clone" you mean you manufacture the ECU from scratch

No. Both guys reman ECUs. Brett is trying to argue a trivial point that his product is more quality because its "consistent".

The problem with Brett's post is you can easily get lost and it causes confusion.

[Jesters Deadd]

I like to think of it as options.
Like when you buy a car or a computer.
No one likes a car without options. Besides its a way to keep prices lower for my customers.
Of course I have never had that "there is only one way to do things" mentality.

Why do you keep saying I make these in my garage? It's obsurd. I make them at a desk in a workroom just like you do.

Why don't we talk about my 2 year warranty that is twice as long as yours?
insert thats what she said joke. jk ;)



Why do all of these public spats between us start with YOU trying to make digs at my product and or person?

Doing this in public never boost sales or does anything for our products. Doing it in private is not productive either.

I come in peace.:)

[ShootMeNow]

I like to think of it as options.
Like when you buy a car or a computer.
No one likes a car without options. Besides its a way to keep prices lower for my customers.
Of course I have never had that "there is only one way to do things" mentality.

Why you keep saying I make these in my garage? It's obsurd. I make them at a desk in a workroom just like you do.

Why don't we talk about my 2 year warranty that is twice as long as yours?
insert thats what she said joke. jk ;)



Why do all of these public spats between us start with YOU trying to make digs at my product and or person?

Doing this in public never boost sales or does anything for our products. Doing it in private is not productive either.

I come in peace.:)

Great point. It just increases potential customer uneasiness.

Here's an idea: Since both of your customers seem to think you both make excellent products, why not just put together an option chart and let Greg be the neutral arbitrator of what's finally published (sorry Greg, but you know you would be best for this.) Product X and Product Y are 2 columns on top with options listed down the side. Cells could be yes\no or explanations. You both agree to go by Greg's final version of the chart. To be honest, I can't tell from either of your websites how the two are different. I'm sure if I read through every page I would figure it out, but who the hell reads all the competing mechanic manuals before buying a car?
____________________Prod 1_________________Prod2
Warranty.....................1 year.............................2 year
option 2
option 3

It would also give you insight into why customers are purchasing one vs. the other and help you prioritize your future upgrades. This is a win-win for everyone, especially us future buyers.

[aaronatstate]

Whoah trigger, your missing the point. From a purely business standpoint, if you buy two of the same widget, you expect them to be reasonably the same. And if your buddy buys a widget and raves all about it, you expect to get the same product. Right?

And obviously we are not so literal that we don't ignore things such as options, like color or specific features, like (back in the day) whether a tv is cable ready or not.

Now in this case, your buddy orders an ECU. He raves about it. There is not much in the form of options. What options there are, are usually denoted up front. In the case of Adam's earlier ECU's, this usually revolved around circuits like boost control. BUT the customer was aware of the differences, that is the point.

If you make a product, and some include a feature, and some do not, and the customer does NOT know, this can become a real issue, especially when he raves about how good it is. The person who hears these accolades might not know that it is an option, and imagine his dismay when he buys one new or used and it does not work as advertised?

Lets put this another way to ensure you understand... If (insert your favorite burger joint) sometimes used ground chuck, or ground angus, or ground buffalo, or 70/30 ground meat with the pink slime, or 90/10 ground sirloin, basically what ever was cheapest or on sale every time they went shopping, in order to make there burgers, you can imagine the consistency issues, and the customer issues, they would have.

Additionally from a manufacturing standpoint, consistency is key. It helps with brand recognition, brand stability, and helps to promote an overall good customer experience.

This is why from day one, all of my ECU's have been "Clones". Now they are all "Clone 2's". The major point is that with manufacturing consistency, I can ensure that my brand projects a higher degree of professionalism, along with keeping my customers, both new purchasers and those purchasing used product, more than 100% satisfied. It stops that "made in the garage" experience.

Of course maybe you don't care if your ECU has mounting ears in one position or another. Or maybe you don't care if you know if the insides are the same as your buddies... But this leads to other questions, like what else is different? Could something else be wrong?

I personally like to know 100% when I buy something what I am getting... I was never the "grab bag" kind of guy... Maybe you are.



The term is more accurately called "inside jab".... But I suppose only Adam and I would know this...

I'd hope if I was raving about my ecu and my buddy had an sl, he'd be smart enough to buy the proper product. I can rave about a gates racing timing belt for a vr4, but my buddy with a sohc better not buy one if he expects it to work. I'd bet any amount of money that all of Adams vr4 ecus are the same.

Oh not to mention that Adam has helped me out multiple times, and you still haven't even sent the bricked ecu I sent you to test replacing the processor on back.

[Jesters Deadd]

Great point. It just increases potential customer uneasiness.

Here's an idea: Since both of your customers seem to think you both make excellent products, why not just put together an option chart and let Greg be the neutral arbitrator of what's finally published (sorry Greg, but you know you would be best for this.) Product X and Product Y are 2 columns on top with options listed down the side. Cells could be yes\no or explanations. You both agree to go by Greg's final version of the chart. To be honest, I can't tell from either of your websites how the two are different. I'm sure if I read through every page I would figure it out, but who the hell reads all the competing mechanic manuals before buying a car?
____________________Prod 1_________________Prod2
Warranty.....................1 year.............................2 year
option 2
option 3

It would also give you insight into why customers are purchasing one vs. the other and help you prioritize your future upgrades. This is a win-win for everyone, especially us future buyers.

Since I started selling ecus first, you might as well make my ecus product 1 on your chart and not product 2. ;)

[CoopKill]

Come on guys, wipe off the blood, and pull up your panties. The bickering does nothing for sales, and branding, but leave a bad taste.

It is two different marketing strategies.

Brett is Apple, buy one OS all functions there, all inclusive.

Jester is Microsoft, offering a base OS, and multiple teer functionality for a price.

I bought mine from the person that helped me out the most when I was researching it. That simple. This shit will just taint one over the other, and which, will depend on the experience sought/heard/seen.

Dirty politics gets a non-vote in the booths I enter. This is not good for the community. Cheapening, and shrinking as it may be.


Sent from the Man Cave!

[ShootMeNow]

Brett is Apple, buy one OS all functions there, all inclusive.

Jester is Microsoft, offering a base OS, and multiple teer functionality for a price.


There you go, those are the kind of things we need to know, again not obvious from the websites. And I know... Read read read but I repeat: who reads the mech manuals for every car they are considering? I'm a windows guy so I'm done. I also like the fact that I can get a MAF from Jester at the same time.

[CoopKill]

There you go, those are the kind of things we need to know, again not obvious from the websites. And I know... Read read read but I repeat: who reads the mech manuals for every car they are considering? I'm a windows guy so I'm done. I also like the fact that I can get a MAF from Jester at the same time.
They both have MAFs on their sites...

[Greg E]

See what happens guys when you bring your petty crap onto the forums?

[99 vr4]

@Jester

I have never said "Jester makes his ECU's in a garage", now have I? So please stop telling people that I say that. Your constant public bickering and unearthing of your feelings is undermining to the entire community.

What started out as a honest response to a valid question (page 3 post 26) has turned into petty digs and quite honestly, a mine is better than yours, competition (page 4 post 32 and page 6 post 51). And when you’re not doing it, it appears that you are having your friends do it for you (page 3 post 28). Quite honestly, it’s embarrassing.

I have yet to publicly slander your product or talk bad about anything that you directly did in public. It's not very nice.

Oh, BTW, I sent you a PM about the domain name right after your post, but I have yet to hear back from you.

[99 vr4]

There you go, those are the kind of things we need to know, again not obvious from the websites. And I know... Read read read but I repeat: who reads the mech manuals for every car they are considering? I'm a windows guy so I'm done. I also like the fact that I can get a MAF from Jester at the same time.

The Clone ECU concept was simple from the start. It was not about “options”. It was about building a 100% equivalent to the Mitsubishi Factory Unit. Mitsubishi did not have options when you ordered the ECU from the parts department outside of VR4 vs. SL.

It started out as a “donor” ECU that was built on the same revision PCB with 90% the same circuit as the 1998 VR4 or 1999 VR4 (yes they are different boards between the years). Then the Clone ECU was rebuilt into the VR4 spec including much needed O2 sensor hardware calibration, knock circuits, O2 comparator circuits, boost gauge, etc, etc, etc. This turned the new ECU into a COMPLETE CLONE. There was nothing different from this ECU and was EXACTLY the same as if you had bought one from Mitsubishi, sans the mounting bracket.

All of this for ONE LOW LOW price. (I did not want to charge customers extra for standard "options".)

Since then the Clone ECU has grown in concept, with the newest version, Clone2, which is a hybrid ECU. This ECU is designed as a VR4 ECU with the addition of the SL circuitry to control the variable intake plenum on the SL. Again, taking an SL ECU and adding the VR4 circuitry still will not give you this as there is a difference in hardware O2 calibrations. The bottom 1/3 volt (lean) is ignored on the SL and all other donor ECUs while the VR4 ECU is .1 volt more sensitive. This helps in the ECU recognizing the lean conditions faster. Greg swears it does not matter in the code, but Mitsubishi certainly would not have engineered this ECU so different in this area for no reason. And since these motors are so susceptible to lean knock and bearing failure from lean knock, I go with what is safe, what Mitsubishi designed.

Soon, there will be the Universal Clone, with trade in allowed for conversion to the Universal Clone. More will be forth coming in the next few months.

Again, if you have any questions, please feel free to ask.

BTW - I am NOT an Apple fan . . . LOL

[J-Groove]

Oh, BTW, I sent you a PM about the domain name right after your post, but I have yet to hear back from you.

He has been a little bit preoccupied.

http://www.3sgto.org/work-safe-discussions/12522-congratulations-adam-jesters-deadd.html


It was not about “options”. It was about building a 100% equivalent to the Mitsubishi Factory Unit. Mitsubishi did not have options when you ordered the ECU from the parts department outside of VR4 vs. SL.

The options you're digging Adam for are "what plug type"

'91 - '93
'94 - '95 Fed Spec
'94 - '95 Cali Spec
'96 - '97
'98 - '99

It is the option to match their OEM wiring harness and eliminate any need for an adapter harness to make the ECU literally Plug and Play. And these options MATCH the Mitsubishi options from their parts department.

You're making a great product, a clone of a '99 VR-4 ECU that will need an adapter harness for use in any non '98 - '99 3000GT.

Adam is also making a great product a '99 VR-4 ECU clone with a built in adapter chip to allow the end user to plug the ECU into their factory harness.

-John

[99 vr4]

He has been a little bit preoccupied.

http://www.3sgto.org/work-safe-discussions/12522-congratulations-adam-jesters-deadd.html



The options you're digging Adam for are "what plug type"

'91 - '93
'94 - '95 Fed Spec
'94 - '95 Cali Spec
'96 - '97
'98 - '99

It is the option to match their OEM wiring harness and eliminate any need for an adapter harness to make the ECU literally Plug and Play. And these options MATCH the Mitsubishi options from their parts department.

You're making a great product, a clone of a '99 VR-4 ECU that will need an adapter harness for use in any non '98 - '99 3000GT.

Adam is also making a great product a '99 VR-4 ECU clone with a built in adapter chip to allow the end user to plug the ECU into their factory harness.

-John

John, if your going to stick up for Adam, you should have your facts straight.

First, Congrat's Adam.

Now, I sent that PM back around July 3, and Adam has certainly had time to be on this board posting since then . . .

Now to options, that is NOT what I am talking about. Better go re-read the post. Or better yet . . .


I like to think of it as options.
Like when you buy a car or a computer.
No one likes a car without options. Besides its a way to keep prices lower for my customers.


We are talking about boost gauge, fuel pump, etc etc etc

We are not talking about the daughter board (technically, it is not a "chip" as that implies an integrated circuit which by definition would be "a circuit of transistors, resistors, and capacitors constructed on a single semiconductor wafer or chip"), which I have not knocked at all.

[ShootMeNow]

The problem is you are all so smart and good at this stuff it seems natural to you so you think anyone can understand it by reading all the techie stuff and jumping into maps and wiring diagrams right off. If you look at the comments\questions in various threads it's obvious that while most aren't as clueless as me, a simplified overview would not only make it easy for us to get excited and dig deeper, it would be a huge boon to your sales. I've been pulling together a lot of the simple answers to simple questions to turn into a newbie FAQ that I will of course run by all of you for correctness before I share it anywhere. For example the full answer to this simple question can't be found in any single place:
What won't I need to get if I use a Flash ECU?
You won't need:
- boost controller,
- safc,
- maft
- fuel management system
- timing controller
- piggyback Engine Management System
And probably a lot of other upgrade\tuning stuff I haven't come across yet. It was weeks before I realized I could pay for your product with the savings on these things alone. You guys get frustrated answering the same questions over and over so that now it's at the point of "go read" is your standard answer. Wouldn't it be better to answer everything one time and in one place? And it's a lot friendlier to say "that's in the FAQ" then "go read." Anyway, starting a new job on Monday so I don't know how far I'll get but hopefully you have no objections to me trying.

[Greg E]

When I get messages from people that are in the "FAQ" threads stickied atop this forum section I just send them there. If its a new question or just a request for a better explanation for something I ask the person to start a thread publicly and reply there. Generally if I get sent a message and don't reply it's either because I was busy doing something else and I simply forgot or you were someone I helped in the past but chose not to listen to my advice.

I'm sorry but I fail to see my fault in your lack of research of the various tuning options.

[99 vr4]

The problem is you are all so smart and good at this stuff it seems natural to you so you think anyone can understand it by reading all the techie stuff and jumping into maps and wiring diagrams right off. If you look at the comments\questions in various threads it's obvious that while most aren't as clueless as me, a simplified overview would not only make it easy for us to get excited and dig deeper, it would be a huge boon to your sales. I've been pulling together a lot of the simple answers to simple questions to turn into a newbie FAQ that I will of course run by all of you for correctness before I share it anywhere. For example the full answer to this simple question can't be found in any single place:
What won't I need to get if I use a Flash ECU?
You won't need:
- boost controller,
- safc,
- maft
- fuel management system
- timing controller
- piggyback Engine Management System
And probably a lot of other upgrade\tuning stuff I haven't come across yet. It was weeks before I realized I could pay for your product with the savings on these things alone. You guys get frustrated answering the same questions over and over so that now it's at the point of "go read" is your standard answer. Wouldn't it be better to answer everything one time and in one place? And it's a lot friendlier to say "that's in the FAQ" then "go read." Anyway, starting a new job on Monday so I don't know how far I'll get but hopefully you have no objections to me trying.

You are right.

We need a layman's point of view for the FAQ.

PM me and I will create you an account on the website. I will give you editor / contributor permissions so that you can have direct access to create and update the FAQ in simple layman's terms. In return I will give you a great deal on a Clone2 ECU package!

Brett

[ShootMeNow]

I'm sorry but I fail to see my fault in your lack of research of the various tuning options.

Greg, apologies if I came off accusatory, that was he farthest thing from my intent. You guys are revolutionizing our hobby and approach to enjoying our unique platform. As Brett states above, I'm just trying to help by creating a layman's view of your great products. Forums are a great means of communication but not always the most efficient. One thread on another forum is 40 pages now and questions like "will this work in blow thru mode" and "do I still need my boost controller\maft\AEM" must be asked 10 times each in that one thread alone. I was getting pissed reading them, I can imagine how it frustrates you guys. These forums have been a great help to me in pursuit of enjoying my VR4 Spyder and I'm just trying to give back by helping coordinate a group effort here.

[ShootMeNow]

You are right.

We need a layman's point of view for the FAQ.

PM me and I will create you an account on the website. I will give you editor / contributor permissions so that you can have direct access to create and update the FAQ in simple layman's terms. In return I will give you a great deal on a Clone2 ECU package!

Brett

Thanks Brett, I'll PM you but I'm just trying to give something back here. You guys deserve every penny you get for these great products :) Hopefully this can be a cross-product cross forum effort with a result that can be posted here and on your sites and other forums.

[Greg E]

One thread on another forum is 40 pages now and questions like "will this work in blow thru mode" and "do I still need my boost controller\maft\AEM" must be asked 10 times each in that one thread alone. I was getting pissed reading them, I can imagine how it frustrates you guys.
:lol:

FAQ or no FAQ, nothing will stop laziness. I generally don't get bothered by it but then again, I'm not selling anything at this time.

[stealthify]

:lol:

FAQ or no FAQ, nothing will stop laziness. I generally don't get bothered by it but then again, I'm not selling anything at this time.

I don't think it's so much about laziness as it is about there being so much information out there, it's a little overwhelming for anyone just learning about it now.

ShootMeNow has a point. I'd like to contribute in any way I can too. Help take some of the work off your guys' plate of having to explain this time and time again.

[Greg E]

I don't think it's so much about laziness as it is about there being so much information out there, it's a little overwhelming for anyone just learning about it now.

:lol:


When you first start reading you will be confused. The learning curve is steep and the task seems daunting. There is simply too much to read. Some of the posts are top notch and some are pure crap. You will have to figure out which posts to believe in. But do NOT give up, persevere. You CAN do it. It is NOT hard to flash tune your own car. It is not black magic or rocket science.

First post in this thread. ;)

http://www.3sgto.org/tuning-engine-electronics-ecu-discussions/10775-how-tune-your-3-s-using-chrome-flash-ecu.html

[99 vr4]

Due to yet another “Military” vacation, I will be unable to process orders from August 5th to September 4th.
This limitation will apply to all items as I will be over seas in Korea.

I will also have limited email connectivity. So it might not be until September before I can answer any questions.

I thank you all for your continued support!

Brett

[Alex3000gt]

Safe travels Brett

[J-Groove]

Be safe out there.

-John

[FluffyCow]

What they said.

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