Time to start making fuel kits again!

[Ninja Performance]

Time to do what I used to do some 10 years ago when I started developing all the bolt on fuel kits everyone now knows and loves.

Just got in our batch of CNC machined parts. It's go time!

48444846484748454848

-Chris

[green-lantern]

Nice! I already run an IPO fuel kit though :p

I do want to replace the main fuel line and use the old line as a return though.

[DrGonzo]

Little late!! Where were you two years ago when I did my fuel system...:p

[2fnloud]

Chris, Would you please PM me what I would need to support 600 AWHP and possibly the option to run E85...just in case

[Greg E]

Can you make an option for a 5V fuel pressure sensor?

[Ninja Performance]

Can you make an option for a 5V fuel pressure sensor?

you mean to add a fuel pressure sending unit? If so that would be the last picture in the thread, or do you mean include the sending unit with it?

-Chris

[Ninja Performance]

Chris, Would you please PM me what I would need to support 600 AWHP and possibly the option to run E85...just in case

What parts do you have now?

-Chris

[2fnloud]

um your hi-amp hot wire kit

[Greg E]

you mean to add a fuel pressure sending unit? If so that would be the last picture in the thread, or do you mean include the sending unit with it?

-Chris

Including a sending unit for that piece instead of a gauge.

[vr4tune]

That's awesome

[FeaRpb]

Very nice

[AdamVR4]

Glad to see a return to normalcy for ya :)

I've still got some IPO fuel system parts on mine (parts necessary to go from the rail to the aeromotive AFPR and then from the AFPR to the stock return line).

I've got an STM kit on the shelf with rails and lines, but if I need anything I know where to look!

[colossus]

Make the kit that you made for my car (sent to Von) available on your site. I'm sure you will have some bites.

[Trevor]

I've still got some IPO fuel system parts on mine
Same here...original IPO kit that I got was awesome!

[keo92stealth]

If I could do it over again I would have just baught a kit from ya. I spent way 2 much piecing it together the way I did .

[TurboSinceBirth]

I'm wanting black PTFE lines with black fittings setup for dual pump with a filter. I have a TGE dual pump hangar, SX FPR, and Pampena rails. I can't quite decide where I want to put the fuel pressure regulator. I had your IPO dual pump/feed kit but didn't like the placement of the fpr. I'm almost tempted to mount it on the firewall or over on the driver side fender.

[Ninja Performance]

Starting to make up various kits and putting them on the site. Little by little it will get populated like it used to be with all kinds of options.

3/S Bolt On Fuel Kits - Ninja Performance - Affordable Performance Auto Parts (http://www.ninjaperformance.com/index.php?cPath=1_61)

-Chris

[green-lantern]

Chris, I'm not sure about the length, maybe you know right off the bat but how much would it cost for a line from tank to filter? Also I’d be interested in a line from regulator to old feed line to use as a return.

Edit: you can PM me if you want or reply here.

[DG]

Just for the love of Lob stay away from stainless steel braided. That shit saws through everything it touches.

Real race cars have moved on to Nomex braid. Way lighter and protects hose without the abrasion hassles.

And for a real pro finish, use the crimp ends instead of the reusable ends. Lighter, more fitting clearence, and cleaner install.

Aeroquip Startlite Lightweight Engine Hose (http://bakerprecision.com/aqp2.htm)

DG

[Ninja Performance]

Chris, I'm not sure about the length, maybe you know right off the bat but how much would it cost for a line from tank to filter? Also I’d be interested in a line from regulator to old feed line to use as a return.

Edit: you can PM me if you want or reply here.

Have made many of those. Only issue, I know the length tank to filter, when I put the bulkhead fitting(s) on the sender lid, and when I place the filter (in my complete kits). Without knowing the exact locations, a pre made line may be off.

We could probably deal with slight inaccuracies though. It would still fit. I don't like putting nylon braided under the car due to possible abrasion. I like to run SS braid under the car for the hose's protection. Black nylon with tracer under hood is fine.

-Chris

[green-lantern]

Have made many of those. Only issue, I know the length tank to filter, when I put the bulkhead fitting(s) on the sender lid, and when I place the filter (in my complete kits). Without knowing the exact locations, a pre made line may be off.

-Chris

My filter is almost in the exact location as the stock filter. So I guess the same length as stock to filter. When I get closer to installing my dual pump system I can probably get the exact length though.

I’m thinking of changing the rails to dual feed so there might be some changes.

[TurboSinceBirth]

Have made many of those. Only issue, I know the length tank to filter, when I put the bulkhead fitting(s) on the sender lid, and when I place the filter (in my complete kits). Without knowing the exact locations, a pre made line may be off.

We could probably deal with slight inaccuracies though. It would still fit. I don't like putting nylon braided under the car due to possible abrasion. I like to run SS braid under the car for the hose's protection. Black nylon with tracer under hood is fine.

-Chris

You could get Skillard's underbody fuel line protector. It's much thicker than stock big enough for a 10AN line and definitely stronger. With that there would hardly be any line exposed basically just a little at each end where it routes up to the tank or up to the fuel filter in the engine bay. I'll be running nlyon line that way and don't see a problem unless my car does some crazy offroading in a field or rock crawling. Lol.

http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0068/4102/products/img_864_large.jpg?0

[keo92stealth]

Where did you find that protector ? With my lines and a y fitting , the stock one wouldn't go back on .

[Ninja Performance]

That guy made those a while back, they are very cool.

-Chris

[Ninja Performance]

My filter is almost in the exact location as the stock filter. So I guess the same length as stock to filter. When I get closer to installing my dual pump system I can probably get the exact length though.

I’m thinking of changing the rails to dual feed so there might be some changes.

Either way I can hook you up. I was the original designer/builder of the dual feed kit and dual pump kit way back in the day. AAM had something out back then but it was a mess.

-Chris

[TurboSinceBirth]

Where did you find that protector ? With my lines and a y fitting , the stock one wouldn't go back on .

You can get one from here: Skillard Design Inc | Aluminum Underbody Channel Guard (http://skillarddesigninc.myshopify.com/products/aluminum-underbody-channel-guard). I installed mine last summer and was glad because my stock one was beat up. It's at least 1/2" deep so you have room for all sorts of stuff.

[DrGonzo]

I'm running the black nylon hose from tank - filter on my car. I'm using the stock plastic underside shield and I have not had any issues. Been on their 2+ years now. I am careful what I drive over and one day I will get the metal Skillard one also. But for now it's working just fine.

[Ninja Performance]

I'm running the black nylon hose from tank - filter on my car. I'm using the stock plastic underside shield and I have not had any issues. Been on their 2+ years now. I am careful what I drive over and one day I will get the metal Skillard one also. But for now it's working just fine.

What size? -6AN should fit, -8AN starts becoming an issue.

-Chris

[DrGonzo]

-6an line is what I am running. I only have a single feed so it is more than adequate. Fits just fine with the stock plastic. I didn't want to use the SS cause I was worried it wouldn't make some of the tight bends under the car. Running the nylon was tricky in some spots, I couldn't see myself running SS without dropping the front sub-frame.

[Ninja Performance]

Thought you were running -6, didn't think you needed -8 and tucking it in the stock rail, had to be -6.

I run -8AN SS braid under my car, have forever, since when I developed the Dual pump kits 10 years ago. Fits fine, makes all the bends it needs to. No sub-frame dropping or anything crazy needed. But no reason to run -8 when -6 will supply the fuel you need.

-Chris

[keo92stealth]

How much power can 6an lines support or there is no limit?

[green-lantern]

Either way I can hook you up. I was the original designer/builder of the dual feed kit and dual pump kit way back in the day. AAM had something out back then but it was a mess.

-Chris

I was thinking of running the line around the top part of the fire wall then split the line into the rails right were the loop is. IDK if I need to worry about heat from the rear turbo or not. I think it will be fine but I'm not sure. Can you show a pic of yours or what ideas you have for this?

[Ninja Performance]

I was thinking of running the line around the top part of the fire wall then split the line into the rails right were the loop is. IDK if I need to worry about heat from the rear turbo or not. I think it will be fine but I'm not sure. Can you show a pic of yours or what ideas you have for this?

No reason to run fuel lines across the back hear the turbo. I hate seeing kits setup this way. You are asking for trouble. The inner lining (the actual hose) in the AN line whether it is SS braid or nylon, can and does deteriorate due to extreme heat.

My kit comes up to stock filter location, after filter splits from -8 to dual -6 going to each pass side rail. Each driver's side rail then returns -6 (dual) to the FPR (on pass side between fuel rails, then FPR returns fuel kind of like the stock FPR does (location/run wise).

-Chris

[Ninja Performance]

How much power can 6an lines support or there is no limit?

Of course there is a limit, can't find the actual chart at the moment and don't want to misquote HP per AN size.

I can tell you this, stock feed is equivalent to -5AN

-Chris

[green-lantern]

No reason to run fuel lines across the back hear the turbo. I hate seeing kits setup this way. You are asking for trouble. The inner lining (the actual hose) in the AN line whether it is SS braid or nylon, can and does deteriorate due to extreme heat.

My kit comes up to stock filter location, after filter splits from -8 to dual -6 going to each pass side rail. Each driver's side rail then returns -6 (dual) to the FPR (on pass side between fuel rails, then FPR returns fuel kind of like the stock FPR does (location/run wise).

-Chris

I just hate seeing the lines run back across the rails. Almost seems like the top of the firewall would be cooler than under the plenum.

[Ninja Performance]

I just hate seeing the lines run back across the rails. Almost seems like the top of the firewall would be cooler than under the plenum.

Exhaust manifold and turbo versus intake? I'll take intake.

-Chris

[green-lantern]

Chris what HP can one walbro support? I have Jackhammers dual pump hat prototype. I'm thinking of running two walbros but not sure yet.

[keo92stealth]

Well if the stock fuel system means lines can support 600 plus wheel I know the 6an can do a little more . Might have to do some bigger lines for my car then .

[Ninja Performance]

Chris what HP can one walbro support? I have Jackhammers dual pump hat prototype. I'm thinking of running two walbros but not sure yet.

A regular 255LPH HP Walbro? 550 Wheel give or take.

-Chris

[green-lantern]

A regular 255LPH HP Walbro? 550 Wheel give or take.

-Chris

I might stick with my current setup. I'm just after about 450hp. I've been thinking of the dual feed just because I'm a bit paranoid of the rear cylinders 4/6 running leaner than the front.

[Ninja Performance]

Yeah, I like the true dual feed setup.

-Chris

[keo92stealth]

Yeah, I like the true dual feed setup.

-Chris

I know the domestic guys run 2 fpr in there dual feed setups. Crazy .

[green-lantern]

I know the domestic guys run 2 fpr in there dual feed setups. Crazy .

Are they worried about overrunning one?

[BaadVR4]

I did the cross sectional area calculations for the PTFE -8AN hose vs synthetic -8AN hose before I went to the -8AN PTFE set up. I previously went from two -6AN lines to one -10AN line from back to fuel filter under battery tray, then back to two -6AN lines, one to each fuel rail on passenger side, then two -6AN lines from driver's side of fuel rails to Aeromotive AFPR on firewall (passenger side) and a single -6AN line to return to tank. Just like Chris suggested. That set up insures front and rear banks have equal pressure and flow capacity. I ran both Walbros and the return line in through a modified OEM fuel hat. In my son's car, I installed a dedicated new return line into the top of the fuel tank, just a few inches away from the OEM hat. Makes things a little easier, plumbing wise.

My calculations show a single -8AN line should support 800+AWHP. I'm not sure where, but thought I remembered hearing/reading somewhere that a single -8AN line would support nearly 3 times HP of OEM line.

Paul, if you're worried about the single Walbro, just replace it with a 400 or 465. Either of those pumps will support way more than 600 AWHP.

[green-lantern]

Paul, if you're worried about the single Walbro, just replace it with a 400 or 465. Either of those pumps will support way more than 600 AWHP.

I might do that. I just hate to let the jackhammer dual hat sit on the shelf :lo5l:

[BaadVR4]

Maybe I could use it. Haven't got anything made for my car yet. Hell, still haven't got Sheri's car back together. Hope to put engine in by next weekend. Have to have it running by Feb 15th. What would you need to get for it?


I might do that. I just hate to let the jackhammer dual hat sit on the shelf :lo5l:

[keo92stealth]

I did the cross sectional area calculations for the PTFE -8AN hose vs synthetic -8AN hose before I went to the -8AN PTFE set up. I previously went from two -6AN lines to one -10AN line from back to fuel filter under battery tray, then back to two -6AN lines, one to each fuel rail on passenger side, then two -6AN lines from driver's side of fuel rails to Aeromotive AFPR on firewall (passenger side) and a single -6AN line to return to tank. Just like Chris suggested. That set up insures front and rear banks have equal pressure and flow capacity. I ran both Walbros and the return line in through a modified OEM fuel hat. In my son's car, I installed a dedicated new return line into the top of the fuel tank, just a few inches away from the OEM hat. Makes things a little easier, plumbing wise.

My calculations show a single -8AN line should support 800+AWHP. I'm not sure where, but thought I remembered hearing/reading somewhere that a single -8AN line would support nearly 3 times HP of OEM line.

Paul, if you're worried about the single Walbro, just replace it with a 400 or 465. Either of those pumps will support way more than 600 AWHP.

So how is your fuel setup now ?

[keo92stealth]

I might do that. I just hate to let the jackhammer dual hat sit on the shelf :lo5l:

You can still use the jackhammer hanger even with one pump .

[BaadVR4]

Changed single -10AN to single -8AN and replaced all hose with PTFE hose. Odor protection. The PTFE hose is slightly smaller inner diameter than synthetic rubber stainless steel hose. That's what prompted the research.


So how is your fuel setup now ?

[green-lantern]

Maybe I could use it. Haven't got anything made for my car yet. Hell, still haven't got Sheri's car back together. Hope to put engine in by next weekend. Have to have it running by Feb 15th. What would you need to get for it?

hmmm, I sort of hate to sell it because it was a gift but if I'm not going to use it I hate to see it go to waste.


You can still use the jackhammer hanger even with one pump .

Yeah it's a little different because it's the prototype but I can run it that way. Not much reason to if I'm not going to use 2 pumps. I might keep it because Greg talked about making a flex fuel option. I would need another pump if I ran E85.

[DG]

I might stick with my current setup. I'm just after about 450hp. I've been thinking of the dual feed just because I'm a bit paranoid of the rear cylinders 4/6 running leaner than the front.

This is why we have bank-specific O2 sensor feedback and fuel trims.

On an AEM car at least.

DG

[Greg E]

This is why we have bank-specific O2 sensor feedback and fuel trims.

On an AEM car at least.

DG

Stock car is the same way.

[Ninja Performance]

And without true dual feed your banks will run different AFR, I tested this back 8 or 10 years ago when creating dual feed fuel setups for the 3S. And testing showed the dual feed I created fixed the issue. If you look on 3si you may find results, it would be from LONG ago.

-Chris

[keo92stealth]

Chris you have time 2 explain your dual feed setup ?the size of your an lines and stuff particularly . I know you run like 4 fuel pumps lol.

[AdamVR4]

My calculations show a single -8AN line should support 800+AWHP. I'm not sure where, but thought I remembered hearing/reading somewhere that a single -8AN line would support nearly 3 times HP of OEM .

At what pressure drop through the lines? These calculations are fairly straight forward, but any size hose will have pressure drop. Whether or not your lines are large enough boils down to the volumetric flow rate of your pump(s) @ (base fuel pressure + boost pressure + pressure drop thru lines).

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

[Ninja Performance]

Chris you have time 2 explain your dual feed setup ?the size of your an lines and stuff particularly . I know you run like 4 fuel pumps lol.

The dual pump dual feed setup I developed for the 3S back like 8 years ago goes like this:
Two pumps in tank
Two -6AN bulkhead fittings on sender lid
Two -6AN short lines from tank to dual inlet -6AN to single -8AN Y block
-8AN hose from tank to filter at firewall
-8AN out of filter to Y dual -6AN outlet
Two -6AN hoses from Y to each fuel rail pass side
Two -6AN hoses from each fuel rail driver's side to FPR on pass side bewteen rails
-6AN hose from FPR return/outlet to stock feed line
Stock feed line at tank is re routed to return at the tank

-Chris

[keo92stealth]

Now I know what I have to change in my system . Thanks