AWS alignment question...

[hotGTO]

OK, I am trying to get up to speed on everything I don't know, and this board seems to be a great place to do it since it will help get topics out there and searchable as well as fill in some blanks for me... soooo:

Does the AWS require any type of special alignment? If it does, do all alignment shops know that, and are they all equipped to do it, or is it something I need to discuss with the service tech when I ask for the alignment?

[DocWalt]

Yes, it requires a special alignment. I'm not going to post from memory, but I have the correct way to align the rear end. FWIW, every alignment shop I've been to has the special alignment procedure in their rack computers.

[hotGTO]

Do you get charged extra because it is AWS?

[R/T93]

No you shouldn't get charged more.

I have no clue why an AWD car would have any different requirements for an alignment than any other car. Each wheel has its own adjustments and changing one really doesnt have a huge effect on another. They just bring everything to as close to zero as possible anyways.

I suggest getting the lifetime alignment from a Firestone Dealer. I have had dozens of alignments (I get my settings changed back for the street after races) and they always do a good job. Its like 140 dollars for as many alignments you want as long as you own the car.

[DocWalt]

It has nothing to do with the AWD, it's the AWS. The rear rack needs to be aligned separately from the regular alignment.

[hotGTO]

Firestone is becoming a huge ripoff around here! They tried to get me to pay $500 for crank shaft pulley claiming it was a "dealer only" part, so I called the dealer (Cherry Hill) and it was only $180!!! They had zero explanation why they were overcharging me for the part except "That's how much it lists for in our computer." Also, my co worker went to a different Firestone for a vibration and they wanted to replace his steering rack for over a grand when he only needed his tires balanced, but they refused to do his "lifetime alignment" until he let them replace the rack. He went to a different shop and got wheels balanced and that fixed his whole problem for $50. (I have heard of shady shops knocking your wheel weights off so they can say you have big problems!!!) I refuse to ever step foot into a Firestone again! (sorry for the rant)

[Steve '92ES]

I have no clue why an AWD car would have any different requirements for an alignment than any other car.
This right here is going to be your biggest problem.
I got into a bit of an argument at a local shop that kept telling me "Yes! We can align AWD!"
After asking three times I had to tell the manager to WATCH MY LIPS! I SAID ALL WHEEL STEERING!!
He got mad and started yelling at me YES! FOR THE FOURTH TIME WE CAN ALIGN ALL WHEEL.... oh. Did you say Steering?!? I'll have to ask the tech...

Make sure they're listening when you ask....

(And no, not all shops have the equipment to do the job. There's a special rig for locking the rear wheels in place..)

[DocWalt]

It won't let me attach the PDF of the rear alignment sheet. :rolleyes:

It's apparently too big... that's what she said.

[Austin@STM]

It won't let me attach the PDF of the rear alignment sheet. :rolleyes:

It's apparently too big... that's what she said.

hahaha.

[DocWalt]

:thumbup1:

PDF of the rear alignment (http://docwalt9.110mb.com/rear%20alignment%203_96C.pdf)

[Keyan]

the only thing different is you have to un bolt the rear outer tie rods before adjusting toe. then adjust the outer tie rods to fit back into the holes. i've aligned my car myself a few times.

[mcshooter]

first off avoid the shops that use a computer alignment. find a shop that knows to remove the rear tie rod and align the rear first and you should be good to go. where i live in summit county, ohio the only place is tallmadge allignment in tallmadge ohio. i know of folks who have come there from 100 miles away

[Trab]

Hey this is kinda off topic, so sorry. But say i buy the aws delete kit from 3sx. Would i have to get the rear realigned? How does that work out? Thanks

[DocWalt]

The same way as it should with the regular AWS. Unbolt one heim joint and push it out of the way, and then reconnect them, and align the new tie rods so that the toe set with them matches the toe set on the trailing arms.

[TwIzTeD_3kGt]

the only thing different is you have to un bolt the rear outer tie rods before adjusting toe. then adjust the outer tie rods to fit back into the holes. i've aligned my car myself a few times.

This. That's the only thing that's any different from any other alignment.


Firestone is becoming a huge ripoff around here! They tried to get me to pay $500 for crank shaft pulley claiming it was a "dealer only" part, so I called the dealer (Cherry Hill) and it was only $180!!! They had zero explanation why they were overcharging me for the part except "That's how much it lists for in our computer." Also, my co worker went to a different Firestone for a vibration and they wanted to replace his steering rack for over a grand when he only needed his tires balanced, but they refused to do his "lifetime alignment" until he let them replace the rack. He went to a different shop and got wheels balanced and that fixed his whole problem for $50. (I have heard of shady shops knocking your wheel weights off so they can say you have big problems!!!) I refuse to ever step foot into a Firestone again! (sorry for the rant)


I work at Firestone and we don't rip people off. The lifetime alignment is probably the best deal for an alignment out there. Ever consider maybe your buddy's car had a bad rack? Can't do a proper alignment with a bad rack (one that has play in it). As for the part mark-up, maybe you got a new salesman who just looked at the list price in the computer (which is usually way high) instead of calling the dealer and adding the proper mark up (or maybe he's just a shady fucker). Either way, I hate when people condemn a whole corporation because of an individual, it's just dumb. That individual could be working anywhere. If you really think it's a company-wide issue, call up corporate and tell them the situation. They'll take care of it.

[hotGTO]

I work at Firestone and we don't rip people off. The lifetime alignment is probably the best deal for an alignment out there. Ever consider maybe your buddy's car had a bad rack? Can't do a proper alignment with a bad rack (one that has play in it). As for the part mark-up, maybe you got a new salesman who just looked at the list price in the computer (which is usually way high) instead of calling the dealer and adding the proper mark up (or maybe he's just a shady fucker). Either way, I hate when people condemn a whole corporation because of an individual, it's just dumb. That individual could be working anywhere. If you really think it's a company wide issue, call up corporate and tell them the situation. They'll take care of it.

No offense to you or anyone, but I can't believe that he would bring it in for "wheel vibration" and a shop would point the finger at a steering rack before checking tire balance... Getting his tires balanced at a different shop fixed his vibration completely .Every service manual for every car lists "check tire pressure and tire balance" before anything else for wheel vibration. He brought it for alignment because of wheel vibration and he assumed the tires were balanced because it was Firestone who did the balancing in the first place! But they should have known enough to check the tire balance. That goes back to hiring knowledgeable techs. When they wanted to overcharge me for the crank pully, I talked to more than one person in the store, not just one guy, and they had no way to even let me speak to a manager nor did they do as you suggest and call for a price. they just wanted the $500 and said they don't set the prices, corporate does... SO I condemn that corporation, at least where I live. They could be managed differently in other stores or other locations. Sorry, but they lost my business, as well as the other co-workers of mine who know of these 2 issues that happened a week apart at 2 different local Firestones. If there is a Firestone near you that is awesome, then please go to them, that is common sense... I didn't mean to offend, but I have to tell it like I see it.

[TwIzTeD_3kGt]

You said they couldn't do his alignment because it needed a rack, not that the bad rack was the cause of the wheel vibration...(which I would guess is what they told your buddy, since only an idiot would diagnose a vibration as a bad rack, then again, they could be idiots at that store)

Either way you obviously didn't get my point (it's the individual working on the car or quoting you (who could be working ANYWHERE), not the company). It's not Firestone policy to mark up parts 500% or hire idiots who don't know what they're doing. But don't worry about it, no skin off my back if you ever go back or not bud. Just saying it's dumb to condemn a company like that. You could easily replace "Firestone" in your rant with any other company, and I guarantee someone will have the same rant for that company.

[hotGTO]

You said they couldn't do his alignment because it needed a rack, not that the bad rack was the cause of the wheel vibration...(which I would guess is what they told your buddy, since only an idiot would diagnose a vibration as a bad rack, then again, they could be idiots at that store)

Either way you obviously didn't get my point (it's the individual working on the car or quoting you (who could be working ANYWHERE), not the company). It's not Firestone policy to mark up parts 500% or hire idiots who don't know what they're doing. But don't worry about it, no skin off my back if you ever go back or not bud. Just saying it's dumb to condemn a company like that. You could easily replace "Firestone" in your rant with any other company, and I guarantee someone will have the same rant for that company.

I tend to agree about that, and it is a shame that all techs and or stores can't be more reliable even if you leave out the companies name... Unfortunately there are shady and or less talented mechanics out there everywhere and it is a shame that they do reflect poorly on the company who's name is on the building. So, yes I do get where you are coming from, I could easily point my finger at Pep boys for a few bonehead things that I have had happen there. (like spewing the contents of my glovebox once to look for my owners manual thinking as if it was a repair manual that would have a wiring diagram in it...UGH) Or Goodyear for the time I bought a set of Monroe struts and they put Napa struts on my car. (which were probably better anyway) and then tried to tell me that the Napa shocks are made by Monroe, but they could not get the ones that said Monroe on the side so they put the ones that said Napa on my car instead... UGH... So yes, you are right...

[mcshooter]

one guy i know who worked doing alignments at a goodyear dealer told me when he first hired in there it took him 1 day to free up the wheel plates, everone was getting the same printout for who knows how long. they wanted him to do a job in less than 20 minutes. thats also why why i stay away from computer shops along with to change the computer numbers all you have to do is push on a wheel and all of a sudden the car is ok. if you find a good shop who does the job correct you are lucky. check folks who know cars in your area to see where they go . we are lucky we have a tv show with a auto tech hosting it every sunday

[Austin@STM]

This. That's the only thing that's any different from any other alignment.




I work at Firestone and we don't rip people off. The lifetime alignment is probably the best deal for an alignment out there. Ever consider maybe your buddy's car had a bad rack? Can't do a proper alignment with a bad rack (one that has play in it). As for the part mark-up, maybe you got a new salesman who just looked at the list price in the computer (which is usually way high) instead of calling the dealer and adding the proper mark up (or maybe he's just a shady fucker). Either way, I hate when people condemn a whole corporation because of an individual, it's just dumb. That individual could be working anywhere. If you really think it's a company-wide issue, call up corporate and tell them the situation. They'll take care of it.

Can you guys fit a lowered car on your on your rack, this has reminded me i could still use an alignment.

[TwIzTeD_3kGt]

Can you guys fit a lowered car on your on your rack, this has reminded me i could still use an alignment.

Yeah we can, one way or another. Mine is lowered and pulls up there fine. If it's too low to just drive up, we have ways to get it up there safely.

[JasonY]

Since we're talking alignments...What are some good specs for aggressive street driving? There seems to be little info other than what stock specs are which im doubting are very good for lowered cars with totally different dynamics than stock.

Jason

[TwIzTeD_3kGt]

Since we're talking alignments...What are some good specs for aggressive street driving? There seems to be little info other than what stock specs are which im doubting are very good for lowered cars with totally different dynamics than stock.

Jason

Hopefully someone who Auto-X's will chime in, as I couldn't tell you for sure. All I know is the couple guys that come in for alignments with specs in their hand, so they can go race around the track, like to run 2* or more of negative camber in the front and back with the toe set at 0*. One guy has an Evo and the other has a C5 Z06 (he has requested as much as 4*). Not sure what works for our cars though.