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Thread: I've been developing a new td04 - thoughts and or interest?

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    I've been developing a new td04 - thoughts and or interest?

    (not sure what to name them? Hurricane Cat. 1's for smaller frame sizing? Going with Saffir-Simpson nomenclature)


    these will also be dyno'd on my own personal car for test data, but the compressor maps show that these wheels flow around 425hp per wheel @ 2 bar

    some pics:


    -billet 20g I'm building for a customer on the left

    -My billet td04 on the right



    closeups - unpolished



    Cat. 1 wheel next to OEM MHI 19T compressor wheel




    Close up



    Architecture comparison

    observe the secondary set of blades structure and height for example

    also observe the center post cone profile between the cast and billet parts











    Hx52 billet 67mm comp wheel, 350Z headers, Custom 4" exhaust, STM avenger intake mod, Denso 1250's, twin walbro 400's, dual pump/dual feed braided lines from tank to rails,Tial 50mm BOV, Tial 60mm wg, Spec 4+ with hub welded and balanced, Rays Bellhousing brace, flash ECU with openport 2.0 tune, MSD coils with KB boost a spark, MSD race ignition wires, Odyssey PC680, CX racing fmic 1000hp core 28x12x4, ABS delete, EGR delete, AC delete, cruise delete, pansy patrol pulley reduction, Vac reduction

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    Comp wheel architecture cont









    For the turbines:

    Heres the kinugawa 9 blade HL in comparison to profile for a stock 9 b turbine

    less blades, reduced yet still structurally sound center hub

    HL profile for largest flowing turbine in a td04 housing

    Composition test to insure that these ARE in fact 718 aircraft grade iconel alloy to handle the heat




    wide gaps for increased peak flow in a small housing



    side by side blade profile comparison



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    Compressor cover dimensions of stock vs high flow 19T comp cover ** (prior to boring for Cat 1. Wheel)**






    What this all translated to for weights

    - a compressor wheel the approached td05 20g dimensions thats within 5 grams of a 19T td04 weight





    ...and a higher flowing turbine thats the largest physical size of the td04 turbines (HL) but weighs within 10 grams of the smallest and lightest td04 turbine







    add some heavier thrust parts, apply some antifriction treatment and hardening, balance the assembly and you have the idea!

    I've been developing these on DL since last winter, but I'd love to hear some of the forums thoughts

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    outside of that I can also do exotic work to your turbocharger, such as quick spool valves, lighter turbines and billet comp wheels depending on make and model/features of your turbo

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    Too big for my tastes. Is this a one off for your own build or will you be selling them. This is bigger than a 750? Didn't MTC have "devastating" results from the mismatch in compressor/turbine size?
    I like the naming process.
    Turbos that require a built motor generally don't sell well unless they have DR in their name.
    Timp has been selling the crap out of his billets, his pricing and smallish turbo size are attractive.
    Just my initial views and opinions.

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    The 12 blade devastators didn't do well. The 9 blade supposedly made good power according to TurboSinceBirth. These are pretty much similar to what TSB has gotten, except the comp wheel is different. I'm sure they will make good power. My personal opinion from seeing all these different TD04 options is that in the end they all make +/- 50whp at the end of the day... Any properly setup large frame td04 with an HL turbine can make 550whp...IMO..at similar boost levels. Past mid 20's boost the 750's creep away from the competition but how many people run that kind of boost anyways? Very few.

    The turbos to dethrone are the 750's...if these can make over 650whp with similar mods...you're in business.

    I'm excited to see results though, good luck.
    Last edited by NOMIEZVR4; 09-10-2013 at 01:52 PM.

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    Interesting.
    -Steven
    We follow the earth. The earth follows the stars. The stars know their way and though the body dies. The stars will remain, like the waves of the sea and restless slate.

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    Thank you for the replies!

    I'll bring up some points in reference to address concerns and observations to show how I've attempted to counter them

    First off, I set out to hit a target number, I haven't set out to make a turbo who's sole purpose is to dethrone or combat anything released, only to just hit a performance target. That's the name of the game obviously, but still I just want it to do what it was designed efficiently and reliably, no more, no less.


    For the inevitable comparison of the DR750's and the Devastators, based on the data I'm aware of and have gathered since last year until now.

    - DR750's -


    - unless Matt has changed his compressor wheel architecture between revisions, the compressor wheels on the Cat. 1's are larger in every dimension
    - Matt's units use the stock OEM compressor housing with a bigger nozzle for fitment of the inducer. This succeeds in truly being a bolt on, but hinders the peak flow capabilities. Reference a td05 20g dyno before and after the stock td05 compressor housing is replaced with a larger aftermarket unit- significant gains are made on the dyno.
    -The new 9 blade turbines have netted a significant improvement over the 11 blade in terms of peak power- on rays most recent dyno threads, a customer dynoe'd @680 awhp with a full engine build and e85. This is compared to Rays own car dyno pushing 650 awhp through the 11 blade units



    As for the MTC units with shaft snapping, I can't speak for the weight of their compressor wheel, but mine is reduced to that of a 19t - reducing rotational inertia and torque on the turbine shaft.
    Additionally, the internal sliding assembly ie thrust plate, bearings, turbine shaft and piston rings are all WPC treated for greater durability, reduction in friction and longer wear life.

    Reference this for a quick technical article on the WPC process for those unfamiliar.

    Special Treatment Part 1, All you wanted to know about WPC > MotoIQ - Automotive Tech, Project Cars, Performance & Motorsports

    Also, the thrust plate is upgraded from factory, it includes thicker dimensions, extra oiling ports and is WPC treated in and of itself. Additionally its also an upgrade kit made from a brass alloy plate and paired with a steel alloy bearing. The two different metals help to prevent the surfaces from welding together under extreme conditions such as road race or heavy dyno sessions where the tiny assembly can absorb a lot of heat causing parts to actually fuse and things to snap.

    Some possible revisions may include: a backswept blade design to reduce stress on the shaft, but we'll see how this iteration performs

    As for price, I'm looking to position this to reflect what my costs and overhead are: not much.

    I do the assembly services and some of the CAD on the side in house, but the design and balance/machining services are outsourced to reputable shops who already have the equipment and costs absorbed. They provide me discounts for being a frequent shopper and drumming up designs that prove durable and repeatable, and in turn I pass the savings to keep these cheap and accessible. The more discounts I receive, the more the price drops as I'm already generating what I think is fair for my services and time.



    **in summary**
    in comparison to the dr750

    9 blade turbine offers significant whp gains according to Ray's dyno.
    Higher flowing comp covers than stock oem units which restrict peak flow
    larger comp wheel


    Compared to the devastator

    slightly larger wheel
    lightweight compressor wheel with that of a 19T- closer matched to turbine size
    hardened/anti friction treated turbine shaft, thrust parts, and bearings for durability, increased spoolup, and longevity


    Performance targets

    With ported manifolds (turbos come ported as standard)

    700+ whp capability in bolton form with full supporting mods and fuel (for drag oriented vehicles)

    Full boost by ~ 3500 rpm on a 3.0 with stock compression (for road race cars and streetability)

    I also personally follow the philosophy that if you create something that you should also be willing to test it yourself before putting other people possibly in disaster's way. So on that note I've built a set for my own personal vehicle to dyno first on stock engine. I've removed the single setup I fabricated to install these instead for data acquisition.

    Then I will drive/race these throughout this coming year to show long term data (I road race in the summers)

    Then I will finally try peak numbers with a built engine I'm putting together for an all out dyno.



    Concerns, questions, ideas of things to try/do?

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