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Thread: How hard is it to replace an output shaft?

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    Forum User Not Verified Feedback Score 3 (100%) Sin'sVr4's Avatar
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    How hard is it to replace an output shaft?

    What do you need to do to replace an output shaft? Do you need to tear the tranny completely apart? I am wondering because I will eventually need to upgrade my stocker and go to a 300m. I have heard from people it is easy and heard from some that you need to completely tear apart the tranny? Just want some clarification

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    rawr. verified Feedback Score 4 (100%) Atrosity's Avatar
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    Hey Sin, Hope this helps!

    This Was Copied and Pasted from the "Other Site"

    I snapped and sheered my output shaft so I recommend this to most VR4/TT owners.

    __________________________________________________ _______

    Alright, I've seen many posts and questions in the last year or so about doing the output shaft without pulling the tranny. I just installed my 300M shaft, so I thought I would offer some tips.

    First of all, let me credit JRC - http://www.vr4stealth.com/output_shaft.htm and whom ever made this page - http://hireznet.com/swap.htm. I probably wouldn't have tried it without their help. EDIT: Also wanted to give props to Sean (Internexus) who helped out a lot as well.

    Now let me just tell you. Its easy. I'm not going to give a full out guide to doing it, as those two sites above are available. However, I have some good advice.

    1. You do NOT need to remove anything suspension or drive train related other than the transfer case and the passenger side wheel.

    2. To get that allen bolt out that sits in your input shaft, you can use a crowbar to hold the flywheel in place through that access hole on the front (of the car) side of the tranny.

    3. Before pulling the tranny cover off, remove the the little plate that holds the the three balls and sprins in. This will make removing the cover easier. You may want to place a towel under the tranny when you pull the tranny cover, so you don't lose the balls if they fall (mine didn't).

    4. You will probably have to hammer the cover off a bit. Take it easy, and use some soft wood or soemthing to wedge in one side while you hammer on the other to provide some better leverage for you.

    5. Once you think you have the cover's dowels disconnected, the input shaft is still probably holding it on. Stick the allen head bolt back in the shaft and give it a few taps to free it from the cover.

    6. Since you didn't remove anything suspension related, you can NOT remove the super long bolt at the lower left corner of the case (its too long to clear the A-arm). Just swivel the case cover on this bolt.

    7. You may have to pry the gear that hangs over the VCU to get it to clear so the VCU cap can come off. At first I was prying on the gear, but Internexus (Sean) realized we can just stick something in the end of that shaft and pry that way.

    8. Don't be too worried about pushing the pins in the VCU cap too far in. You have a long way to go before they'll fall out.

    9. Use some RTV when reassembling.

    10. Tighten everything up evenly when putting the case cover back on!

    Let me know if you have any questions. Again, for a full procedure guide, see the two I listed above.
    Last edited by Atrosity; 11-29-2010 at 02:36 PM.
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    Its not all that hard, only the cover on the end has to come off.

    Some poeple do it in the car but i would say is deff easier out of the car on a table so you can move it around and see everything a bit better.

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    Why? Because Race Car. verified Feedback Score 0 akotten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Austin@STM View Post
    Its not all that hard, only the cover on the end has to come off.

    Some poeple do it in the car but i would say is deff easier out of the car on a table so you can move it around and see everything a bit better.
    I agree that it would be easier on a table, but isn't pulling the tranny by itself kind of a PITA? I've never done it but I've pulled the motor before with the tranny attached and I feel this would be easier haha. Maybe if I had a hoist...
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    SKADOOSH!!! verified Feedback Score 1 (100%) J_Parker's Avatar
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    I'm actually in the process of doing this myself, the eintire tranny doesn't have to come appart. Just the end piece has to come off, I agree that it is much easier to have thr trans out rather than in the car.

    To do mine...

    1) Take sensors etc off. (Just to ensure none are broken in the process)

    2) Take shift levers out.

    3) Remove the snap ring from the input shaft.

    4) Remove the corresponding bolts of the outermost section of the transmission.

    5) Take the small plate off the front of the plate, be sure not to lose the bearings and springs inside!

    4) Use a soft mallot to seperate the end plate from the rest of the transmission, use some wooden or whatever kind of soft shims you can (I used some polly ones I had laying around) to spread the plate equally until the dowels separate. and lift out the guts.

    5) Unless you're doing some work to the rest of the trans simply take out the output shaft from the rest by pulling the top of the output shaft directly away from the rest of the gearset, once the gears clear pull straight up.

    6) Once the VCU is out everything is pretty straight foreward from there. If you need help getting the shaft out of the VCU I'll post again.

    Hope it helps.

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    Forum User Feedback Score 0 AshyBone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J_Parker View Post
    I'm actually in the process of doing this myself, the eintire tranny doesn't have to come appart. Just the end piece has to come off, I agree that it is much easier to have thr trans out rather than in the car.

    To do mine...

    1) Take sensors etc off. (Just to ensure none are broken in the process)
    Are you talking about the speed sensor?
    2) Take shift levers out.
    One is easy but the one that actually goes into the tranny that sits on that plate, how the hell does that come out and if you unbolt those two small bolts on that square plate do you have to pry it off?
    3) Remove the snap ring from the input shaft.
    Where the hell is this snap ring?
    4) Remove the corresponding bolts of the outermost section of the transmission.

    5) Take the small plate off the front of the plate, be sure not to lose the bearings and springs inside!
    Can you explain this some more?
    4) Use a soft mallot to seperate the end plate from the rest of the transmission, use some wooden or whatever kind of soft shims you can (I used some polly ones I had laying around) to spread the plate equally until the dowels separate. and lift out the guts.

    5) Unless you're doing some work to the rest of the trans simply take out the output shaft from the rest by pulling the top of the output shaft directly away from the rest of the gearset, once the gears clear pull straight up.

    6) Once the VCU is out everything is pretty straight foreward from there. If you need help getting the shaft out of the VCU I'll post again.

    Hope it helps.

    Jordan.
    If its all to much can you please PM me or just answer again on my thread. Thanks for your help I'm clueless when it comes to transmissions.
    Last edited by AshyBone; 11-30-2010 at 05:22 AM.

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    Banned Feedback Score 11 (100%) J. Fast's Avatar
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    I would not recc doing it in the car. You have to check the preloads. If it's out of spec you'll only be able to shim it from one side and it can have a dramatic effect on the driveline. Not something I would recc doing for your first time working on a trans as there's a lot of moving parts in there.

    I would also recc doing it with the trans pulled. It never ceases to amaze me how some people are fighting for time and will skip big steps in a drivetrain. Even though the shafts may look identical it's possible to have a different preload once you install everything again. Once you start stacking all them up is when you have problems. The transmission was intened to be repaired as a whole unit and stackup from input to output verified with a dial indicator. Make big power later w/o checking it and 9 times out of 10 you will break a driveline piece or have engagement or chatter problems later.

    Pull the trans unless it's an emergency.
    Last edited by J. Fast; 11-30-2010 at 09:04 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by J. Fast View Post
    I would not recc doing it in the car. You have to check the preloads. If it's out of spec you'll only be able to shim it from one side and it can have a dramatic effect on the driveline. Not something I would recc doing for your first time working on a trans as there's a lot of moving parts in there.

    I would also recc doing it with the trans pulled. It never ceases to amaze me how some people are fighting for time and will skip big steps in a drivetrain. Even though the shafts may look identical it's possible to have a different preload once you install everything again. Once you start stacking all them up is when you have problems. The transmission was intened to be repaired as a whole unit and stackup from input to output verified with a dial indicator. Make big power later w/o checking it and 9 times out of 10 you will break a driveline piece or have engagement or chatter problems later.

    Pull the trans unless it's an emergency.
    I agree with what you are saying in general terms, but how does the output shaft affect any bearing clearance? As far as I can recall the only thing that could affect that is the VCU case itself, along with the bearings on each end of the VCU case. The position of the lid to the VCU case is determined by the roll pins that go through the housing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by J. Fast View Post
    I would not recc doing it in the car. You have to check the preloads. If it's out of spec you'll only be able to shim it from one side and it can have a dramatic effect on the driveline. Not something I would recc doing for your first time working on a trans as there's a lot of moving parts in there.

    I would also recc doing it with the trans pulled. It never ceases to amaze me how some people are fighting for time and will skip big steps in a drivetrain. Even though the shafts may look identical it's possible to have a different preload once you install everything again. Once you start stacking all them up is when you have problems. The transmission was intened to be repaired as a whole unit and stackup from input to output verified with a dial indicator. Make big power later w/o checking it and 9 times out of 10 you will break a driveline piece or have engagement or chatter problems later.

    Pull the trans unless it's an emergency.
    Generally speaking yes that is right, but if only the output shaft is being replaced it's not overly critical. If an entire teardown and rebuild were in order then absoloutly, there is no way whatsoever that step should be skipped. It "can" be done in the car, but in all aspects it'll save you a world of troubles to just take it out. I'm sure as long as ONLY the VCU comes out you'll be fine for clearances, make sure that when it all goes back together that your gears are seated and lined up properly.

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    Banned Feedback Score 11 (100%) J. Fast's Avatar
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    This is why... You may choose to guess but the end result can be very expensive. This was a shaft that was replaced at a dealership in the same fashion as described in the writeup. This is what happens when you do not balance the tooth contact on the entire assembly and leave slack on the output side.

    End cover, no damage.



    Improper preload with excess runout transferred to the centercase damaging bearing.



    Another angle...



    You can see in the next picture how the bearing collar on top of the center diff case was machining the race and it cut all the way through and started machining the center case on the endcover side.



    Here is a picture of the bellhousing side. You can see how the race on the opposite side is supposed to look.



    The metal shavings from the bearing machining the sleeve on the trans centercase endcover side passed through the race and took out the bearing on the bellhousing side of the centercase and damaged the output shaft pinion bearing.



    The only way to check the tooth alignment with the method posted is to use a tooth contact signature material and jack the car up and physically spin the tires and take it apart again and inspect the dye pattern. If the tooth contact is off you have to drop the trans and use the crush method to determine where the slack needs to be taken out and redo everything anyway.

    If you just drop in an output shaft without using a dye oil you're just guessing. You may get lucky and you may not. When you start putting a crapton of torque on the components the oversite will look similar to this. The only complaint on this trans was transmission chatter and the output shaft had nearly 10K on it before the bearings started chattering.

    Hope the pictures help illustrate guys.
    Last edited by J. Fast; 11-30-2010 at 11:57 PM. Reason: More pics

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