Thread: Why the Kid Gloves for Islam?

Well with the amount of spite and xenophobic rage in the writing, it's pretty clear the focus of the article is an agenda rather than a factual assessment of what's going on. When things like this are said:

Muslim kids were bunking off to the local mosque for Friday prayers and coming in late for transgender-history class or whatever

I'd rather just laugh than actually take the time to decide if it's true or not.

Okay, fuck-head-

Parse this, and perhaps we'll take this a step further:


So the Health Commissar, Kathleen Sebelius, has decided that, under Obamacare, religious institutions, like any other employer, will be required to offer their workers free contraception, sterilization, and abortifacients. Well, there's a surprise.


Tell us all the problems we should be having with this, vis a vis "spite" and "xenophobia"?

Feel free to throw any objection you may have into the mix.

Try to do it without resorting to your usual rhetorical word-bricks.

Make it snappy.

Edit:

You must learn how to hold up your end of things, Butts - you're against a slight majority who hold a view differing from your own; that means you are butting in from Left field...and you just can't STAND it when we take the time to express substantial (but not complete) agreement.

You'll have to work a bit harder, I'm afraid.

Originally Posted by j2k4

Okay, fuck-head-

Parse this, and perhaps we'll take this a step further:


So the Health Commissar, Kathleen Sebelius, has decided that, under Obamacare, religious institutions, like any other employer, will be required to offer their workers free contraception, sterilization, and abortifacients. Well, there's a surprise.


Tell us all the problems we should be having with this, vis a vis "spite" and "xenophobia"?

Feel free to throw any objection you may have into the mix.

Try to do it without resorting to your usual rhetorical word-bricks.

Make it snappy.

Edit:

You must learn how to hold up your end of things, Butts - you're against a slight majority who hold a view differing from your own; that means you are butting in from Left field...and you just can't STAND it when we take the time to express substantial (but not complete) agreement.

You'll have to work a bit harder, I'm afraid.

lol fuck-head. You never get the hang of this, do you?

Let me start by saying two things:
1. calling me a fuck-head makes you sound 12.
2. You accusing me (or anyone for that matter) of using "rhetorical word-bricks" is hilarious. When did you buy your glass house?

Now,

If you did even a second of research you would know that the quoted portion above is completely and utterly false. Not only is it 100% false that under the national healthcare plan federal money would be used to pay for abortions (except in cases of rape or incest), we can go further - suspending the fact that it is completely false - and take it at face value:

Employers need to offer their employees these healthcare plans.
>offer

Offer != force. No one is being forced to take these contraceptives, sterilizations, and abortifacients. And surely none of these devout religious employees would take them, would they? The holes are already in the argument even if you ignore its basis in falsehood, and it just proves more and more how ridiculously out of touch conservatives are with social issues like sex and contraception.

Originally Posted by j2k4

"...the Health Commissar, Kathleen Sebelius, has decided that, under Obamacare, religious institutions, like any other employer, will be required to offer their workers free contraception, sterilization, and abortifacients..."

Tell us all the problems we should be having with this, vis a vis "spite" and "xenophobia"? Feel free to throw any objection you may have into the mix.

All you should have said.

Originally Posted by Frostedbutts

If you did even a second of research you would know that this article is completely and utterly false.

The examples he's citing are false or the premise is false? I thought the premise was that islam is having an easier time getting religious exemptions than christianity.

Originally Posted by Frostedbutts

Not only is it 100% false that under the national healthcare plan federal money would be used to pay for abortions (except in cases of rape or incest), we can go further - suspending the fact that it is completely false - and take it at face value:

Unless I missed it, I don't think he ever said that Obamacare would pay for abortions. That was just an example of a religious institution being forced to operate against their beliefs.

Originally Posted by Frostedbutts

Employers need to offer their employees these healthcare plans... No one is being forced to take these contraceptives, sterilizations, and abortifacients. And surely none of these devout religious employees would take them, would they?

That's a good point, but it sure will put the church and employee in a fun situation when the offer is accepted.

The last bit about conservatives being out of touch with sexual issues -- is that mostly about Santorum? I had managed to avoid knowing anything about him until I just read the "Same-sex marriage and reproductive rights" portion of his wiki page.

Santorum has stated that he does not believe a "right to privacy" is part of the Constitution. He has been critical of the Supreme Court decision in Griswold v. Connecticut (1965), which held that the Constitution guaranteed that right and overturned a law prohibiting the sale of contraceptives to married couples.[142] He has described contraception as "a license to do things in a sexual realm that is counter to how things are supposed to be,"[8] and said in 2003 that he favors having laws against polygamy, adultery, sodomy, and other actions "antithetical to a healthy, stable, traditional family".

LOL.

Originally Posted by Frostedbutts

Not only is it 100% false that under the national healthcare plan federal money would be used to pay for abortions (except in cases of rape or incest), we can go further - suspending the fact that it is completely false - and take it at face value:

Federal money funds abortions now, and will as long as the organizations getting federal funds are performing abortions. To say "no, they spend federal money on the electric bill" just means the electric bill money is now available for abortions. It's a shell game, and it may fool you, but I think you underestimate the intelligence of others. Liberals are great at that...

Employers are forced to offer their employees contraceptives, even when it violates their deepest principles.

FTFY

The operative word here is FORCED. I don't expect you to understand principles.

Originally Posted by AdamVR4

The examples he's citing are false or the premise is false? I thought the premise was that islam is having an easier time getting religious exemptions than christianity.

I edited that portion to make it more clear - I was responding to the quoted section in blue, not the entire article. I have no idea if the whole girls on their periods needing to sit in the back is true or not, but it would more than likely be difficult to find the story - and judging by the content of the article I don't think I want to even waste my time. Still, it's hard for me to even take the "opressed minority" sob story from Christians even remotely seriously.

Originally Posted by AdamVR4

Unless I missed it, I don't think he ever said that Obamacare would pay for abortions. That was just an example of a religious institution being forced to operate against their beliefs.

Right. I just don't see the outrage in offering someone these services, especially if they do take advantage of these offerings none of the funding is coming from religious taxpayers pockets. That's what they paint the outrage to be about, isn't it? More about this below.

Originally Posted by AdamVR4

That's a good point, but it sure will put the church and employee in a fun situation when the offer is accepted.

The big problem with this is the general problem being perpetuated by the religious right with the entire universal healthcare bill - it isn't about abortions and contraceptives, it's about getting people the healthcare they need when they can't afford it. It's always the religious right that boils every larger issue into a smaller one about sex and abortions to fit their agenda. Just like they vilify Planned Parenthood as an "Abortionplex of the US", like it's some revolving door of baby killing - when in actuality its nothing of the sort.

Originally Posted by AdamVR4

The last bit about conservatives being out of touch with sexual issues -- is that mostly about Santorum? I had managed to avoid knowing anything about him until I just read the "Same-sex marriage and reproductive rights" portion of his wiki page.

Haha, yes I'd say he's the champion of it. If it wasn't him, it's Michelle Bachmann, but either way it's one large group of people who still think AIDS is the gay disease, kids don't have sex, and that the morning after pill is the abortion pill. I guess in a way, it's like they're Blockbuster right around when Netflix came out - and even though society as a whole is evolving into something else and moving in a direction they don't like, they just want to sit kicking and screaming because that's not the way they want it to be.

Originally Posted by Valhallaz

Federal money funds abortions now, and will as long as the organizations getting federal funds are performing abortions. To say "no, they spend federal money on the electric bill" just means the electric bill money is now available for abortions. It's a shell game, and it may fool you, but I think you underestimate the intelligence of others. Liberals are great at that...

No it doesn't, you are misinformed. Deflect with the electric bill gambit all you want, though. You're the one with your head in the sand.

FactCheck.org : The Abortion Issue

I'm sure factcheck is a liberal organization in your eyes so you can discredit this argument.

Originally Posted by Valhallaz

FTFY

The operative word here is FORCED. I don't expect you to understand principles.

FORCED... to offer. As I had said before, offering these devout religious employees a service they clearly are morally grounded against shouldn't be an issue, right? It's not like they're handing them birth control and "Free Abortion" coupons, they're being offered a standardized healthcare plan that just so happens to include contraceptive plans. Again, a huge plan being boiled down to abortion and sex by the religious right.

Did I mention the healthcare law? No, I said tax dollars fund abortions now...

And how about if I force you to offer blowjobs... Would you have a problem with that?

It's not like anyone has to take you up on it...